dissapointed - new LS50w's vs old PioneerFS52's/Luxman R113 - so far Kef's not so great?

+1 twoleftears   I really don't get this speaker and I've owned KEFs in the past.  They sound like they are out of phase to me and I've heard them with real power in a decent room.  Not familiar with the W ones.

The ls50s do what they do very well (very lifelike detail and coherency) but are small and thereby necessarily limited. Not designed for larger rooms. Yes they also require some muscle to be driven well. They will not shine otherwise and will likely sound downright underwhelming in larger rooms. Even in a smaller room a sub is needed for bass extension. I suspect many have bought these based on the deserved rave reviews and but with unrealistic expectations.

Have not heard those Pioneers but they are larger and likely not as challenging to drive so would not surprise me if they perform well with lesser amps but I would expect a much different sound that some might prefer especially in a larger room.

Apples and oranges are hard to compare.

may be GIGO.... you didn’t name your source solution. I ran the wired version of the LS50’s and found them quite resolving but if your source detail is mediocre you wont hear what you paid for. They are picky about room placement for bass because they are a ported speaker and won't please a bass head because the driver is too small for bass drum and fender guitar bass playback

No speaker sound ok in a room without room correction. Certainly not if they are standing on a desk and you are sitting close. You will experience this if you put e.g. a Martinlogan Unison in your source chain (ARC room correction - probably the best for small money). The LS50W will shine then. They do need separate subs though. They have nothing of interest to show you below 100Hz. I’m saying this out of experience. Actually I had them sound so good that I’m looking at adding a Ref 3 or Ref 5 to the collection. Very natural. My reference is the ATC 150 ASL

I had both the active and passive on home demo, both broken in by the dealer. Didn’t like either.

First of all cabinet resonance. Boxy sound. Very obvious. Treble. Metallic, raw, unrefined, reminding me of the first CD boomboxes. They also sound a bit mechanical, artificial, digital. Warm midrange but muddled because of bass interference.

The way I got them to sound reasonable: subwoofer, crossover at 70Hz if I remember well. Some room EQ in the app. Much better midrange, good bass this time around and treble sounding a tad warmer. But the box coloration and unrefined treble were still a deal breaker.

I managed to get slightly better results with the passive version and some Dirac which tamed some of the cabinet sound
and bass / midrange issues. But the tweeter is still a cheap and nasty affair that completely ruins the experience.