LP12- Power Supply- Need education


I have read a lot about different options to upgrade the analogue power supply.
A phono stage need to amplify micro signal would require very good power supply to ensure there is minimal noise interfere with the signal.
I read about Lingo and other power supply articles, however they never mentioned about the science behind it.
How could a power supply powering a motor will introduce noise to the cartridge especially belt drive?
How do you measure the noise when playing a record?
Or would  the power supply provide a more stable rotational speed, my speed measurement on the turntable shows very consistence rpm once it is playing?
I really do not understand why a Lingo power supply cost so much but cannot provide an improvement with a measurable results.
Could someone educate me.
msnpassion
See msnpassion. All this is meaningless mental gymnastics.Any minor irregularities are filtered out by the mass of the platter. They never make it to the record.
Millercarbon since I know you are a smart guy I have to believe that you have never had a chance to live with a properly designed suspended turntable. The Linn is far from properly designed. It is designed to give you heartburn it is so unstable. Once you live with an SME or suspended SOTA for a while you would not live with anything else. They are amazingly stable and nothing gets to them. I can not speak for Basis as I have never lived with one. Get or borrow a medical stethoscope and listen to the surface your turntable is on. Even if it is granite on a concrete floor you will be amazed at the stuff you will hear like the washing machine and your air conditioning compressor not to mention all your subwoofers. Listen to your platter. Hopefully you hear nothing. Don't forget to take the mat off. If you listen to a Linn platter you will be able to pick up radio stations. If you listen to an SME or SOTA platter you will hear nothing. Now if your setup is on a wood floor there is absolutely no comparison. If you jump up and down in front of a Linn you will send your cartridge to the moon. If you do that in front of any mass controlled table you will get the same effect. If you do that in front of a SOTA or SME you will see their suspensions do two or three slow cycles and the tonearm and cartridge continue to track perfectly as the whole mess is moving perfectly at 2-3 cps well below the cartridge/tonearm resonance frequency. 
Millercarbon since I know you are a smart guy I have to believe that you have never had a chance to live with a properly designed suspended turntable.

My first turntable was a Technics SL-1700. Still have it. Next was a Basis 2005, another suspended table. Had that one around 10 years. Not sure about the Technics, but Michael Fremer himself recommended the Basis (along with a similar VPI) when he called to help me out. So pretty sure that yes, I have lived with a properly designed suspended table.

Living with the Basis taught me a lot about turntables. Taking it all apart, seeing how its all made, modifying and hearing how each mod affects the sound. Its all been described before but every part- motor, belt, power, platter, bearing, suspension- was over the years changed. Not merely swapping out one whole table for another like most guys do. How can anyone possibly gain any understanding of what each part is doing if all - the whole thing- is changed at once? Impossible. Changing just one part at a time- the belt for example, or the motor, or the bearing- that's how you learn what's going on.

Any minor irregularities are filtered out by the mass of the platter. They never make it to the record.

Good example. First thing I ever did, swap the power cord on that Basis turntable. Same platter, same mass, same bearing. Same motor. How could the power cord make a difference? It did. 

I have changed motor, pod, motor pod feet, motor pod support location, and material, motor controller, motor controller umbilical cable (!) and more- all with the same bearing, plinth, and massive platter. Easily heard differences each time- not all of them a lot or good but always a difference. If platter mass filtered it all out then how is that possible?

Oh and yes some of it is damping. Also have changed damping under the motor, turntable, plinth, and base. Individually. So I know exactly what each change sounds like. There is definitely a difference between the lowering of the noise floor and revealing of inner detail that damping achieves and the reduction in grain and glare and improved air and depth and imaging that comes with more precise speed control.

Every single one of these is a trade off of some kind or other. Damped and isolated lowers noise- and dynamics. Massive and stiff is more dynamic- and noisier. There's a million different stories but its trade offs right down the line. Would love the chance to hear a SOTA. Never even heard of anyone who has one, least not around Seattle. 

 



None of the power supplies mentioned here, including any of the Linn options or the VPI PSs, incorporate a feedback mechanism whereby instantaneous changes in platter speed can be sensed and corrected. What you do is to set the PS such that your platter is turning at 33.333 rpm using one or another technology (recommend KAB strobe device)  to monitor the speed while you set the power supply. After that, the platter is on its own; the PS cannot account for belt slip, belt creep, stylus drag, etc. Phoenix Engineering made an aftermarket power supply with a separate tachometer that connects to the PS and feeds back speed errors that could be due to any of the above, which are then corrected.  PE no longer markets these devices, but SOTA has worked out a deal with the PE engineer, Bill Carlin, and essentially PE equipment can now be purchased through SOTA. Some think this sort of mechanism introduces new problems due to the act of correcting the aberrant speed, which, such persons think, has the potential to be as audible as is any momentary degradation of speed control.  I don't agree based on my personal experiences.
The mentioned method of running the turntable motor on reduced voltage to reduce noise does not always work well with all types of motor, and carries with it the penalty of a loss of torque. In fact, I think at least one of the VPI devices works by lowering voltage and/or current. I don't know whether Linn uses an AC or DC motor, but if you can adapt an AC synchronous motor to your Linn, then in my opinion the very best option is to buy such a motor and the SOTA/Phoenix Engineering products to run your Linn.  In my experience, ANY competent motor power supply makes a huge upgrade for a belt-drive motor, but the PE stuff is the absolute best.
I am not a big fan of suspended turntables with lightweight platters, but if I had to optimize one, I'd go that route.  I do use the original PE gear to run my Lenco, and I am very happy with the results.
None of the power supplies mentioned here, including any of the Linn options or the VPI PSs, incorporate a feedback mechanism whereby instantaneous changes in platter speed can be sensed and corrected.
You’re incorrect, both the Linn Lingo 4 and Radikal use sensors in a closed loop with a speed control which monitors platter position once per revolution. The Lingo 4 accomplishes this with an AC motor and the Radikal a DC motor. I have direct experience with both and they are at the very least equal to the Phoenix Roadrunner/Eagle (I owned and used both Phoenix products on VPI and Basis turntables.).
@saburo   +1


There is, as usual, a ton of misinformation and pure 'BS' being foisted by those who really have absolutely no clue about the sound of a well set up Linn LP12. 
I love this from mijostyn...'listen to a Linn platter, you will be able to pick up radio stations'..ridiculous!