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Best Way to Integrate Subwoofers?

What’s the best way to integrate subwoofers with monitors, or speakers?

I’m not referring to placement, or room treatments. I’m referring to what’s the best way to integrate via a crossover, without a custom dedicated crossover.

Do you run two separate signals to the subs vs the speakers and supress the lower frequencies to the speakers, while supressing the upper frequencies to the subs? It would seem that this method might allow you to move the crossover to higher frequencies, relying more on the subs for the bass and lower mids - if that is beneficial. It would also seem that this method would permit you to taylor the slope of the crossover to minimize overlap of frequencies between the subs and the speakers, which might improve clarity - depending on the capability of the particular crossover used. And, I suppose it implies / requires a separate crossover to be used to run both signals through to route the mids and highs only to the speakers and the bass and lows only to the subs.

Or do you run the same signal to the subs and speakers and just emphasize the subs up to the bottom of the frequency range of the speakers, crossing over from the subs to the speakers at that point (crossover notch). It would seem that this method would require you to fix the crossover at the bottom of the frequency range of the speakers, wherever that may be, and would not require a separate crossover to be inserted into the signal path. And it would seem to imply that the slope of the crossover would be limited to the slope inherent in the subs and speakers, which would limit the flexibility of the crossover.

Or, does it make any difference?
bassdude
newtoncr
151 posts
 
I agree with James63. I run my kef blade 2s and  Jl Audio f113v2 x2 integrated with a Jl Audio cr-1 crossover, placed between my preamp and monoblocks. 
All the literature in Jl Audio is by Barry Oder .
http://www.soundoctor.com/whitepapers/subs.htm
Setting up phase using Barry’s technique, (same in the Jl Audio website) and crossover slope at 24db/octave worked best for me. The cr-1 does not add any noise or corrupt the tone of my ayre amplifiers. 
I also have a set up of rel subs set up the way rel recommends using the speakon connectors and they r far from ideal. 
The Jl Audio set up let’s my kefs open up at the midrange and play with so much more ease , while using my parasound jc-1 amps and now my Ayre MXr twenty.
i have talked and worked with many gurus of bass but no one has helped me more than Barry Oder and he is always available by phone to help.


jrpnde
271 posts
 
I have a question...................or two......

There are suggestions from those of this post that obviously have much more knowledge about sub integration than I. But there is a question that may be answered to those who are using an active crossover capable of adjusting the crossover points sent to the subs as well as the mains.......
Should the crossover point on the sub(s) be set to the highest setting and just let the active crossover set the actual crossover value? May seem like a stupid question but if the sub(s) have their own adjustable crossover setting why not just take that capability out of the loop since the active crossover is doing the same thing?" Is there a downside to doing this?

tonyrox
21 posts
 
There is a lot going on when you configure a 2.1 system.  I have my main system in a small room that serves as my office, so I don't have to pressurize a large space, so I have it set up studio style with the Jamo Coronet IV's on the wall in front of me, with a Klipsch 10" sub (front firing, front ported) sub in the closet on that same wall.  It sounds amazingly good,especially considering I can't get the speakers out into the room for proper imaging placement.  I use a 80z crossover point from my old Denon 3802 receiver and this allows the Jamo's to coast from 80 on up.

I like how the Parasound P6 and HINT 6 allow you to overlap the crossover frequency if necessary.  But I'd stay away from running the mains full range, you can get into time smear and comb filtering.

I am used to tuning a 4-way PA in unfamiliar buildings, so I've got some reps in doing this.  I try and find the best spot for the sub by running pink noise through it in several locations to look for the smoothest response, (the newer DSP controlled subs will make this easier), and after finding the best spot, run pink through the main speakers at 80-90dBa, then unplug the mains and turn up the sub till it meets that specified SPL.

Then listen and tune to taste.
dserota
4 posts
 
I also use the JL Audio CR1 and am a big fan of it. I run dual f112v2s and crossover right about 50Hz.  Barry Oder also helped me integrate my subs using the CR1.  He is fanatical about it. Unfortunately, I have heard he has recently left JL.
Anyway, James makes good points about the benefits of running deep bass through a crossover, in that it reduces the workload on your main stereo amp, and also decreases the vibrations in your speakers.  The downside, however, is that you are adding another component into the chain and also need another pair of interconnects (additional cost).  Overall I’m happy with it though.
newtoncr
151 posts
 
The Cr-1 is such a great unit and it does not add any character of its own in my opinion . It’s transparent.
barry now has his own consulting business and does house calls. I had the great pleasure of having him over for 2 days in my house .
when u call Jl Audio they still talk about what Barry bought to the industry lol, even after he has left. 
With my pair of f-113 v2 and blades2 the crossover I have set at 90hz . 
In my opinion and decade of working with subs I totally agree with James. 

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