NAD was more “exacting” was what I tried to say. Damn autocorrect!
Where is my digital problem: taste, vinyl v. digital, DAC, realities, etc?
I want my digital to sound better. While I have about 500 vinyl records, I really like being able to sample music first before buying what I know that I will listen to in the future. I tend, though, to not want to listen as much to poorly recorded music or digital in general. I'd like to get my digital sounding better to make it more engaging so I can listen longer and test out albums before purchasing.
Here's what's going on with my digital end versus vinyl.
Vinyl is holographic--spooky and romantic at times. The sound fills the space better. Digital emanates sound more directionally from the loudspeakers.
Vinyl makes certain instruments sound more realistic--i.e. horns, drum sticks, brushes, acoustic guitar/bass.
Vocals on vinyl (in particular when I play jazz vocals from 50s/60s) sound sublime. Digital is not bad, but the vocals sound less in the room and more like a picture of the recording session.
Digital has more harshness, fatigue, and I cannot play things as loud or as long.
My DAC is an NAD M51 (fed by Tidal to Bluesound Node 2 to DAC)
My phono pre is a Manley Chinook, taking its signal from a Technics 1200 GAE table and ART9 cartridge.
I seem to get this sound, as described above, regardless of speakers.
On some level, I haven't spent as much money on the digital end as the analog end.
Should I try another DAC? Should I just conclude I'm a vinyl person and live with it? I'd prefer not to go down the road of getting back into CDs because the beauty of Tidal high resolution is the ability to try out tons of stuff before purchasing the album.
If I try another DAC, what do folks recommend if my priorities are increasing holography, realism of individual instrument sounds, making vocals sound more in the room, and decreasing bite/harshness/glare, etc. I'd really prefer not to spend Lampizator money. Can I reasonably achieve an improvement in these objectives by going the route of Border Patrol, a tube DAC, or something in the $2k range?
BTW, If I didn't love my vinyl sound so much I'd say the NAD M51 is a really great DAC.
Here's what's going on with my digital end versus vinyl.
Vinyl is holographic--spooky and romantic at times. The sound fills the space better. Digital emanates sound more directionally from the loudspeakers.
Vinyl makes certain instruments sound more realistic--i.e. horns, drum sticks, brushes, acoustic guitar/bass.
Vocals on vinyl (in particular when I play jazz vocals from 50s/60s) sound sublime. Digital is not bad, but the vocals sound less in the room and more like a picture of the recording session.
Digital has more harshness, fatigue, and I cannot play things as loud or as long.
My DAC is an NAD M51 (fed by Tidal to Bluesound Node 2 to DAC)
My phono pre is a Manley Chinook, taking its signal from a Technics 1200 GAE table and ART9 cartridge.
I seem to get this sound, as described above, regardless of speakers.
On some level, I haven't spent as much money on the digital end as the analog end.
Should I try another DAC? Should I just conclude I'm a vinyl person and live with it? I'd prefer not to go down the road of getting back into CDs because the beauty of Tidal high resolution is the ability to try out tons of stuff before purchasing the album.
If I try another DAC, what do folks recommend if my priorities are increasing holography, realism of individual instrument sounds, making vocals sound more in the room, and decreasing bite/harshness/glare, etc. I'd really prefer not to spend Lampizator money. Can I reasonably achieve an improvement in these objectives by going the route of Border Patrol, a tube DAC, or something in the $2k range?
BTW, If I didn't love my vinyl sound so much I'd say the NAD M51 is a really great DAC.
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- 18 posts total
Your problem is probably jitter. Since you are using S/PDIF coax from the Bluesound to the DAC, there is an opportunity to minimize this. Not that the NAD DAC is perfect, but It will probably be a LOT better fed with a low jitter source. On the other hand, everything that the NAD gets is evidently resampled and changed to PWM signal, so it may not be a huge improvement. You might try USB first. You will need a good USB cable from Bluesound to the NAD. I personally use the Wireworld Platinum. Also, it is a good idea to use this in the USB cable: https://sotm-usa.com/collections/sotm-ultra/products/copy-of-tx-usbultra-regenerator-1 This regenerator will improve things a lot with USB, particularly bass focus. If you want to try reducing the jitter from the Bluesound S/PDIF output to see if that helps, you could try one of these: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.0 7 psec of jitter and 30-day money-back, less shipping. I highly recommend getting a better S/PDIF coax cable, BNC type with adapters for RCA. Steve N. Empirical Audio |
I have a preference for R-2R/multibit designs for the reason Mapman mentioned (musical, easy on the ears). I'm very happy with my recently purchased MHDT Lab Pagoda. FWIW, I also have a Schitt Bifrost Multibit, dB Audio Labs Tranquility, and Chord Qute EX. I've used each, with the Tranquility (USB only) being the exception, with my Node 2. I like each of these DACs and have held onto them for various reasons but it's the Pagoda that has a place in my modest system. The Pagoda is but one in their line and perhaps the least romantic. Here's a nice comparison of several MHDT DACs if you care to read a bit about them: http://www.basshead.club/mhdt-labs-pagoda-stockholm-atlantis-and-canary Border Patrol was high on my short list when contemplating my latest purchase. In the end I opted out because it uses a TDA1543 in the design and my Tranquility DAC uses the same chip. I wanted a different flavor so to speak. Best of luck in your search. |
So you have a Manley Chinook tubed phono stage (very nice) feeding a PrimaLuna tubed Integrated (also very nice)... Pouring tube sugar on top of tube honey... So sweet... That is going to be hard to match... Look at R2R Designs Like Denafrips Terminator or FPGAs such as PS Audio Directstream/Junior and Chord Qutest... Or go with a tubed DAC like from Ayon Audio... You may also need to think about rolling some sickening sweet tubes into the first gain stage of your PrimaLuna to help with your tubed sugar addiction... 8^) |
OP asks if he should just be happy with vinyl. I would leave it at that. I think that some people’s brains are just Hard Wired to prefer the limited dynamic range, surface noise, and speed instability that vinyl offers. IMO digital should not try to emulate any of those characteristics. The OP should be happy that so many albums are now available in vinyl, and be happy to shell out the sixty bucks that vinyl retailers charge for digitally recorded music that is then embedded in a slab of petroleum and extracted with an expensive sewing needle that slashes the grooves of the album with each playback. |
- 18 posts total