2017 ‘Keeper’ speakers under - $25K

@blindjim 

Hi Jim,

No, I've never heard the Sabrina's with Mbl electronics. Have heard them with several different ARC pieces and the D'Agostino gear, both were very good to me. D'Agostino is unaffordable for me though.

From the Mbl site, they call them an "omni directional speaker". The sound is somehow everywhere. A person can stand in front of one speaker but it does not seem to significantly affect the sound or imaging; pretty amazing. The Nola's, to me, sound a bit more bright and are not quite as special to me as Mbl. This recollection is from the LA Audio show, so whatever model of Nola they were playing.

Sabrina's and room size. At the LA Audio Show, the room was pretty decent sized, say 14' wide and 20-25' deep. Speakers at one end, the audio rack at the other, maybe 9 or 12 seats approximately. It was pretty magical in there. Not I don't write in fanciful audio terms since I am just a lowly aphile' who knows what he likes. Heard them in another smaller hotel room a different year and wow, same deal. Finally, heard them at said dealers place, Sunny Audio, and this is a pretty big room with maybe a half dozen systems in it.  ARC Gsi75 integrated (75 tube watts), Bricasti M1 DAC and Audioquest cable. This is the demo that got me hooked about 2-3 years ago -Sidenote, also heard them at Sunny's in a different room with the new Arcam integrated with room correction. Without room correction it was not very good, with it switched in it was pretty good, but not ARC good. Possibly it could have been as good if it was dialed in better but I couldn't vouch for that. The Arcam was only $3,400. I'm not sure how large a room the Sabrina would work in, but you could call Sunny and ask. His name is Sunil Merchant and his number is  626-966-6259. I've no affiliation and have never purchased from him. But have been to his shop for a number of get togethers. He seems a stand up guy and loves music.

To correct your question, it was not Mac with Sabrina, but Mac with Vandersteen. I have heard Mac with Mbl and I felt it was soft and lacked the sparkle and excitement of a full Mbl speaker and electronics system.

I am at the point that I want to find the synergy and do the "give me it all" option. I don't want to experiment, I just want to get it as good as I can and start enjoying. I'm some ways from making any choice, but I can say, as I may have said to you before, I keep coming back to Wilson Sabrina/ARC and Mbl. They have been the most consistent and pleasing for me.

I do not recall hearing Ayre; may have at a show but don't remember. But based on what you are saying, it may work well with the Vandersteens. I felt the Vandersteens with Mac were a little soft and lacked some of the sparkle or excitement the Sabrina's have with ARC. Supposedly Ayre makes Vandersteen come alive, and that from more than one source. I could tell though that the Vandersteens had significant potential. There were a few tracks played that gave me more of what I was looking for and so I think that with the proper integrated they would sound better. They were very nice top to bottom and never flustered by complex material or rising volume levels. -I do like McIntosh with Martin Logan ESLs. I've heard the SS amps with several of the ML speakers and it was good.

BTW, forgot to mention when I heard the Sopra 2s at their best with PrimaLuna tubes recently, I also heard the ARC Vsi75 with KT150 tubes at the same time and the sound was near identical with the slight advantage to the PrimaLuna.

pokey77 > I am at the point that I want to find the synergy and do the "give me it all" option. I don't want to experiment… , I just want to get it as good as I can and start enjoying. I'm some ways from making any choic….

blindjim > man! Do I hear that! As usual, huge gratitude.

I’m hung up on what I want as the power line and what could be eual or better than that for the power train of my system.

By the time I’m ready & able, they’ll have chips we can have imbedded into our physiology that will produce live concert experiences and we can download anywhere at anytime.

I feel I’d very much like to go with VAC sig preamp and to start with, one 200 IQ amp. Immediately, this is a bit more than a drop in the bucket no matter . how deep the pockets. $42K MSRP. Add another 200 I Q? $14K mor to get to 200wpc from the 100 wpc stereo amp. The 2nd amp is of course, an option.

An alternative view here is using only the VAC sig pre with ??? SS or hybrid amp (s). Master Audio’s Classsic is around the VAC amp cost. PSA BHK 300 amps are similarly priced as the ‘Classic’. Haggle, Vitas, and others in that range are considerations. Even the Boulder 800 series amp, constellation entry level amp, and even on an older brand loyalty frame, BATs latest 655? Is still on the list.

I’ve found a component of speaker and amp combinating is the actual ‘control’ of the drivers using at least, or more than sufficient watts. There is IMHO a notable improvement in SQ and all of its respects. Usually.

It seems regardless the sonic quality coming from the speaker, more often than not, an ‘as’ compentnt amp with more power sounds better. This is of course, plus or minus tube power vs. SS power. It is a better or more fair comparison to look from SS to SS as most tube amps simply don’t always come in the option of 300, 400, 500, or more wpc. As well, SS watts are far cheaper.

Hearing your accounts of what IMO is minimal power of 75wpc as applied to the speakers you point out, is not too surprising, as I don’t know of the listening levels achieved, yet as said, feel mo’ watts would be better. Keeping the same or closely similar quality in the more powerful amp.

In any event quality power equates to quality results. Everytime. Everytime so far in my EXP. The idea of the PL power adds another bolt of zest as does another amp matching you mentioned previously.

I do very much like the idea of coming out of this without having to drop $20 - $25K on speakers and would prefer, in spite of the boring run in periods for new one, buy new speakers, not used. $20K + speakers would have hidden costs as I’m likely gonna want to go see them first and theres that fee too.

Oil well. Hearing your exp has been quite beneficial as it usually is with any actual personal experiences from private owners.

@pokey77
Don’t look!! stay out of the big room!!! Always.

Did I hear you say the haegel monos were akin to the sound of older Levinson amps?

Although I’ve heard the Levinson amps sound very nice, they’ve always seemed to polite to my ears. I like the older Krell AB amps better…. Almost. Krell can be a bit strident up top depending on the upstream gear and accessories.

I had a KAV 250 with a Sony ES HT receiver as preamp, and some BW and Monitor audio Gold series speakers until I sprang for the KAV preamp. It sure calmed the Krell amp way down to a more civilized presentation. This was prior to my being convinced wires do matter. .

Another pr of Phase Technology speakers came on board, then another pair but those were Floor standers. Tuff 2ohm loads. BAT vk500 replaced the Krell. VR4 JRs evicted the monitor Audios.

The Thor MK II pre and Dodd monos chased the BAT vk5 & VK500, and a pair of Silverline Sonata IIIs took over the speaker duties.

Its tuff for me to stray far from where I feel the sound actually occurs. At the source and within the amp (s). its where I default to put the largest part of the investment. Thereafter, the better I can manage with speakers, the better things ‘should’ be.

I’d always rather have more ahead of the speakers than in the speakers themselves, ‘if’ I have to choose how to split up the funds.

Heard many of the big rooms........... Since they are so far outside my budget,  no problem. It is the $30-45k total-cost systems that get me dreaming and thinking............

I have not heard the Hegel monos but have heard the reference stereo amp.