@blindjim
I took a few minutes to ready your answers to others questions above. I feel like I'm sorta in the same boat. I'd like to put together a new system as the one I'm using now is ten years old. Nothing wrong with it, but wouldn't mind a change either.
I've been to the Show at Newport four years or so, the recent LAAS show, and many get-togethers at various dealers here in SoCal. I've heard systems from less than $10k total to well over a half a million large. And, in my price range, if I allow myself to dream and spend some of my savings, were several systems that just keep popping up as very good. Here they are:
Mbl - The Corona line. for $32k you can get an integrated, CD/DAC, and a pair of Mbl 126 speakers. I've heard a great number of Mbl electronics/speakers over the last four years and I can't get enough. I always sit in their room much much longer than any other room. And for some perspective, I've heard the Xtreme speakers, the 101E MkIIs, and others on down to their lower end. When I heard the Corona line I had just been listening to the 101E MkIIs with Noble Line electronics and a server for front end
for some time. I was amazed at how close the bottom of the line Corona Line system sounded - very close to the
101E MkIIs with much more expensive electronics. Mbl has had a huge affect on me and they have, for me anyway, voiced all their gear to work seamlessly together. Few audio companies make a full line of gear but Mbl is amazing. But there is another system I've really liked..........
ARC LS28/VT80 RefCD9 source with Wilson Audio Sabrina speakers. Yes, I do understand that they are two different sounds, the Mbl and the ARC/Wilson sound. But they both make such nice music. I've also heard the Sabrina with the ARC GSi75 integrated and found that experience very nice as well. Same dealer, different day so no comment on which was best. They were both glorious.
After hearing a lot of gear, I keep coming back to these two systems. I've heard other systems that were very nice, but none that bring me the emotion that these two do.
Finally, and I guess to my point, when you can hear a system set up in total and purchase it that way, you know what you are gonna get. It may not sound exactly the same at home as it did at the dealer, but you do have a good idea that the synergy you are hearing can be brought home. And that is what so many are looking for, synergy among electronics and speakers. I found it in spades with the systems noted above.
Have fun!! |
@thomasgc
Totally agreed. Sabrina’s are amazing. Especially with ARC tubes and D’Agostino SS. Want to hear with the HV series T+A gear. Don't be fooled by their size, they can pressurize a decent-sized room.
Mbl is also very special. Check them out. |
@blindjim
@ctsooner
I read the last few posts and walked away. But I felt like I needed to come back and post.
Don't want to get in the middle Jim, but if you go to the Vandersteen website, you'll find all the info you are looking for. I know since I've been researching Vandersteen for a few weeks now based on my very recent demo of the Treo CT with
McIntosh tube pre (C2600)/SS amp (MC452). That demo revealed a great speaker but maybe not as good as it could have been. The dealer said Ayre gear is what he believes to be the best synergy though they don't have it in the shop currently. ctsooner says the same thing. I think that the Quattro Wood CT is probably a very good deal even though I've never heard them. I've heard few very good speakers in the $10-15k range and I live in SoCal so I have access to shows, get-togethers, and many dealers. The Treo CT was convincing and never flinched as the volume increased or the material became more complex; no fatigue at all. The
Quattro Wood CT has the advantage of two eight-inch sub's with room correction and EQ and according to ctsooner, is much better.
After all this, Vandersteen/Ayre has gone on my short list along with:
Wilson Sabrina/ARC
Mbl + Mbl components.
I still want to further check out the Marten Django L. They were very nice sounding with Zesto tube gear at the LA Audio Show. Also want to hear T+A HV series SS electronics with the Sabrina's - supposed to be very good.
If you look up ctsooner's posts, you will find a wealth of info on Vandersteen. I think it is a worthwhile pursuit. |
@blindjim
I went back and read the account of your condition. I'm now enlightened. I do appreciate the knowledge. As for me, I grow impatient with websites and I can see just fine. Now I have a new appreciation for your world.
@ctsooner
I also have an appreciation for yours now as well.
So, I feel it would be helpful for you both to know where I'm coming from when you read my posts. First, I've been into the highend since the 80s once I could afford it. My current system is:
McIntosh MA6500 integrated
Martin Logan Vantage speakers, powered 8" woofer
Oppo 105
Shunyata Power and a few PCs
Harmonic Technology speaker and interconnect
PS Audio power cords
I've had this system for 10 years and really like it. It also does 2-channel home theater duty as well. And my next system will have to do the same.
I live in SoCal and four years ago I started going to the audio shows in Newport as well as going to the LA & OC audio society GTG's. Mostly just for fun at first but after a while I realized the quality of a well set up and synergized system. I found myself first pulled into Mbl and their electronics. I still am, they are just so much fun to listen to from the entry level system, about $32k, all the way up to the Extreme System (I've heard many of the mega-dollar systems and the Mbl for me is the undisputed king). Then when the Wilson Audio Sabrina came out a few years ago, and I heard it with ARC gear, I found another speaker/system I was very intrigued with. High resolution yet a sense of pace and as ctsooner says, exciting. These two speakers, along with the Marten Django L and Vandersteen Treo CT have really caught my attention.
Here's how I've heard them set up:
Mbl
I've heard all their systems and I like the synergy that an all-Mbl system brings. The entry level system with the Mbl 126 standmount speaker (two 5.5 inch woofers), C31 CD-DAC, & C51 integrated (Class D). This setup is so musical and exciting, can pressuring a big room and is supremely lovely.
Sabrina/ARC
The Wilson Sabrina is just so good with Audio Research tubes. First heard them with the newer Gsi75 integrated (75 tube watts), Bricasti M1 DAC and Audioquest wire (if I recall correctly). This was at Sunny's in SoCal. Wow. Many at the get together really liked this system, I still remember that day. I walked away in love. Later heard the Sabrina's with D'Agostino gear and Bricasti MI and the same feeling, but the D'Agostino gear is well out of my price range. Then heard them most recently at the LA Audio Show, Sunny Audio again, with the ARC LS 28 pre and VT 80 amp (75-tube watts) and was just smitten. Spent a long time in that room. Heard vinyl, which was very good. But so was the ARC Ref CD9. Every digital track was just so good. I often dream of that system too. Pretty sure it was using
Audioquest cable. 75 quality-tube watts have absolute authority over the Sabrina's. I would really like to hear them with T+A HV series integrated plus CD DAC.
Marten
Django L with Zesto tube gear, Merrill Williams turntable and Cardas cable. Heard this only for five minutes at the LA show but was very impressed and may pursue farther. Will also research ctsooner's comments in regards to this company.
Most recently Vandersteen Treo CT
Haven't heard them since the 2C model 30 years ago. McIntosh tube pre and SS stereo amp plus sony hap-z1es. Not sure what the week link was, but think it could be even better and I like McIntosh. With this gear it was ultra smooth and revealing but lacked a bit of sparkle the Sabrina's and Mbl bring. I'd really like to hear the Quatro Wood CT and Ayre electronics.
The reason I mention in detail the speakers and electronics is because I believe unless you choose each of these two very carefully, you'll never achieve the best synergy. I feel the speaker/amp interface is the most critical in system synergy. It is all important, but you must get this right.
Before I sign off Jim, you mentioned the Sopra 2s. I've heard them a bunch of times and all but one time they were a turn off. Heard them with both tubes and SS. The one time they were pretty good was with PrimaLuna as I mentioned previously, and PS audio direct stream DAC with Mac book and pretty expensive cable (forget brand). Very well setup. But for me, they don't compete with the speakers mentioned above. They are a step down for me.
@ctsooner - I'll probably contact you at some point on Vandersteen.
@blindjim - best of luck in your search. |
@blindjim
Hi Jim,
No, I've never heard the Sabrina's with Mbl electronics. Have heard them with several different ARC pieces and the D'Agostino gear, both were very good to me. D'Agostino is unaffordable for me though.
From the Mbl site, they call them an "omni directional speaker". The sound is somehow everywhere. A person can stand in front of one speaker but it does not seem to significantly affect the sound or imaging; pretty amazing. The Nola's, to me, sound a bit more bright and are not quite as special to me as Mbl. This recollection is from the LA Audio show, so whatever model of Nola they were playing.
Sabrina's and room size. At the LA Audio Show, the room was pretty decent sized, say 14' wide and 20-25' deep. Speakers at one end, the audio rack at the other, maybe 9 or 12 seats approximately. It was pretty magical in there. Not I don't write in fanciful audio terms since I am just a lowly aphile' who knows what he likes. Heard them in another smaller hotel room a different year and wow, same deal. Finally, heard them at said dealers place, Sunny Audio, and this is a pretty big room with maybe a half dozen systems in it. ARC Gsi75 integrated (75 tube watts), Bricasti M1 DAC and Audioquest cable. This is the demo that got me hooked about 2-3 years ago -Sidenote, also heard them at Sunny's in a different room with the new Arcam integrated with room correction. Without room correction it was not very good, with it switched in it was pretty good, but not ARC good. Possibly it could have been as good if it was dialed in better but I couldn't vouch for that. The Arcam was only $3,400. I'm not sure how large a room the Sabrina would work in, but you could call Sunny and ask.
His name is Sunil Merchant and his number is
626-966-6259. I've no affiliation and have never purchased from him. But have been to his shop for a number of get togethers. He seems a stand up guy and loves music.
To correct your question, it was not Mac with Sabrina, but Mac with Vandersteen. I have heard Mac with Mbl and I felt it was soft and lacked the sparkle and excitement of a full Mbl speaker and electronics system.
I am at the point that I want to find the synergy and do the "give me it all" option. I don't want to experiment, I just want to get it as good as I can and start enjoying. I'm some ways from making any choice, but I can say, as I may have said to you before, I keep coming back to Wilson Sabrina/ARC and Mbl. They have been the most consistent and pleasing for me.
I do not recall hearing Ayre; may have at a show but don't remember. But based on what you are saying, it may work well with the Vandersteens. I felt the Vandersteens with Mac were a little soft and lacked some of the sparkle or excitement the Sabrina's have with ARC. Supposedly Ayre makes Vandersteen come alive, and that from more than one source. I could tell though that the Vandersteens had significant potential. There were a few tracks played that gave me more of what I was looking for and so I think that with the proper integrated they would sound better. They were very nice top to bottom and never flustered by complex material or rising volume levels. -I do like McIntosh with Martin Logan ESLs. I've heard the SS amps with several of the ML speakers and it was good.
BTW, forgot to mention when I heard the Sopra 2s at their best with PrimaLuna tubes recently, I also heard the ARC Vsi75 with KT150 tubes at the same time and the sound was near identical with the slight advantage to the PrimaLuna. |
@blindjim
I have not heard VAC in a good setting but get that they can sound great on the right speaker. Kinda out of my ballpark cost wise.
You wrote: "Hearing your accounts of what IMO is minimal power of 75wpc as applied to the speakers you point out, is not too surprising, as I don’t know of the listening levels achieved, yet as said, feel mo’ watts would be better. Keeping the same or closely similar quality in the more powerful amp". I can tell you the first time I heard this was the ARC GSi75 integrated and it sounds like it has many more than 75 WPC. Myself and others in that room couldn't believe the authority with which it played the Sabrina's. I've only heard at moderate but toe-tapping volumes and all I can say is wow.
You mention Hegel and I like their sound. I heard at three of their products at LAAS: a very nice combo was the $6k integrated with internal DAC paired with KEF Blade 2s. Very nice. Maybe not ARC/Sabrina good but very nice and not fatiguing or outlandish. Just nice music reproduction. They had a demo where they played their new Rost Integrated, switched to the H360 Integrated with built in DAC, then to their reference separates; all with the KEF Blade 2. There was much greater difference between the Rost and the H360 than between the H360 and the reference separates. Was a great demo.
You mentioned Constellation. I've heard some of their gear in an unfamiliar situation. Would like to hear their entry-level integrated paired with Sabrina's or Vandersteen. As you wrote, "In any event quality power equates to quality results. Everytime.". Very much agreed. Heard a friends very nice T+A components work wonders on some Craigslist $300 speakers (don't recall manufacturer). Really, a system is only as good as its weakest link. A $100k pair of speakers with a $1k integrated will sound like the cheap integrated. Not that you have to spend exorbitant sums of $$$, but you need to spend a decent sum to get there. The difference to me in systems in the $5-15k total cost range vs $30-45k systems is huge. Kinda wish I had never heard the more expensive offerings! |
Heard many of the big rooms........... Since they are so far outside my budget, no problem. It is the $30-45k total-cost systems that get me dreaming and thinking............
I have not heard the Hegel monos but have heard the reference stereo amp. |
@blindjim
I believe you are talking about Alma Music and Audio; I have not had the occasion to visit their facilities. Would be fun. I'll put it on my list. |
