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Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


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lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,099 posts
 
+1, @tubegroover ~ I agree with your feedback on ARC gear. 

@pokey77 - Glad to hear you that your were able to audition and enjoyed the excellent combo of LS28/VT-80. I have recently upgraded my system with Nordost grounding unit (QKORE6) and improvements were far from subtle.  I won't go into any more details here, better save it for another thread :-)
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,502 posts
 
Oops, should have included Keith Herron's great AND affordable tube electronics amongst those hi-fi products hand made in the U.S.A. Though prices at the very top have imo escalated out of control, there are today products offering the highest price-to-performance ratio of our lifetimes!
upscaleaudio's avatar
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upscaleaudio
258 posts
 
That's just silly. Many dealers have good listening rooms and an audiophile can certainly make an initial evaluation there. Sometimes it's easy to ascertain that an amp is too bright, or lacks bass, or is just in some way not to the liking of the listener.

All of those characteristics can change by moving a speaker an inch. Raising or lowering volume a few dB changes everything about perception of sound.  Fletcher and Munson figured that out in the 30's.  

Picking out speakers?  Of course.  You must listen. Amps?  Level-matched, same room, same speakers.  You're kidding yourself otherwise.  

Looks like I have at least one or two guys willing to come out.  I can even demonstrate how your mind can get tricked if you want.  My loving wife will feel abandoned, but I can meet tomorrow anytime or Sunday if it's early.  Next weekend I can meet Saturday the 15th or earlier Sunday.  

Check your calendars if you can please.  Most happy to host you.  I love dinking around with gear.
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
Kevin to ME being an audiophile among other things unrelated to musical enjoyment is discerning subtle differences of a given component through all the variables and proceeding from THAT point. I've been an audiophile long before I ever heard the term, careful listening is the key as you well know being a dealer. It is, to me at least,  much more than level matching of two components in a given system. Often there are other considerations and aspects revealed to an experienced listener. Point being we all process info differently, what's obvious to you may be less so to me and conversely. I trust your method for you but mine for me, all that matters in the end is the result, right? I do however agree that level matching makes discerning a bit easier for sure but not necessarily essential for some. Yes our mind can get tricked for sure or else why so may cable manufacturers'?🤔
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cleeds
5,682 posts
 
upscaleaudio07-07-2017 12:51pm
All of those characteristics can change by moving a speaker an inch. Raising or lowering volume a few dB changes everything about perception of sound.  Fletcher and Munson figured that out in the 30's.

Picking out speakers?  Of course.  You must listen. Amps?  Level-matched, same room, same speakers.  You're kidding yourself otherwise.
Fletcher and Munson's work involved loudness and f-r contours; they never suggested changing volume "changes everything about perception of sound."

Your argument is also inconsistent. You seem willing to dispense with your rigid testing protocol for speakers - but why? Because it's difficult? While it's obviously a tricky undertaking, it most certainly can be done - HK has done some interesting experiments with speakers using your protocol, for example. You can't reasonably insist that your One Way of testing electronics is the only Valid Way, then dismiss your One Way method when the device under test is a loudspeaker. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

In any event, I'd never allow an audio dealer to tell me how to listen. While I value the advice of a good dealer, I already know how to listen. But I'm not going to tell you how to run your business.
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