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Need advice on adding subs

I’m looking for advice on adding subs to my system.

I listen primarily to small combo jazz and classical but I’m disappointed by the classical symphonic reproduction. I can only enjoy symphonic music on my headphones. Perhaps, I could improve symphonic on my main system by adding subs.

I don’t listen at high volume nor am I a bass fanatic. I just want the better sound. This is strictly 2 channel system. I have no interest in HT. I live in an apartment.

My system:

Balanced Power Technology BP-1 Conditioner
Toshiba lap top with JRiver feeding via crossover Ethernet to
Sonore Rendu
Wyred4Sound Dac-2
Warpspeed Optical Attenuator
First Watt J2 Output power 8 ohms30 watts 4 ohms15 watts

Reference DeCapo MM 2-way Monitors

The speakers are a simple 1st order high pass passive 3kHz x-over to the tweeter. I believe the woofer is designed to rolloff naturally at both ends of its band width.

I’m open to any ideas. Lets say up to $2000 budget.


128x128cjk5933
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,510 posts
 

$2000 will just cover the cost of the most unique, transparent, unboomy sub of which I am aware: The GR Research/Rythmik Audio OB/Dipole Sub. The catch is that it is not a ready-to-play, factory-finished product. But it's pretty easy to do, if one is sufficiently motivated.

1- You buy the DIY kit from GR Research or Rythmik Audio, the co-designers of the sub. It contains four 12" woofers (a pair for each of two subs) optimized for Open Baffle use by Danny Richie of GR, and a pair of Rythmik's dedicated plate amps (one for each sub, of course) featuring Servo-Feedback control of the woofers, along with a shelving circuit to compensate for the acoustic roll-off endemic to dipole designs. The Rythmik amp also features outstanding controls including adjustable cross-overs (frequencies and slopes), three levels of damping, 1-band PEQ, and, most importantly, a continuously-variable phase control (absolutely mandatory for integrating a sub with speakers. Do NOT buy a sub without it!). The kit is about $1500 including shipping.

2- You buy a pair of Open Baffle H-Frame flat packs from a woodworker who offers them on the GR Research AudioCircle Forum for around $500. Don't worry---I bought from him, he's very honest and trustworthy. The frames are sent unassembled, but are as easy to build as an Ikea bookcase (well, almost). Made of 1.5" MDF (!), they are a truly excellent design, and very non-resonant (unlike the W-frame design of Linkwitz). You then simply paint or veneer the frames to suit your taste and style. See the thread about them on the Forum for details. If this sounds like more than you want to deal with, you could have a cabinet shop assemble and finish them for you.

There was an OB/Dipole sub offered by Gradient in the 80's, for use with the Quad 63 ESL's (reviewed by REG in TAS). This is similar in concept, but much more advanced in execution. Higher quality drivers, with Direct Servo-Feedback (patented by Brian Ding of Rythmik) control of their motion. State of The Art in subwoofers!


cjk5933's avatar
cjk5933 OP
23 posts
 
Thank you all for the help.
There is a good thread currently running elsewhere on the site, under the simple title "Subwoofers" (I think). Duke of AudioKinesis and BDP24, among others, have made some valuable contributions, and it is worth reading. Here’s the link: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/subwoofer?highlight=subwoofers
That's a great thread. I had looked at that thread earlier and came away from it with some insights and some confusion.  My takeaway from that thread is this:

A sealed box gives the most musical and dynamic bass.  Using two subs instead one would let me crossover at a higher frequency.

That's why I was looking at a pair of Rythmik F12 or F12G. 

One thing that confuses me about that thread.  There appears to be a disagreement about aluminum vs paper driver.  That's the difference between the F12 and the F12G.  Can anyone clarify this for me?
cjk5933's avatar
cjk5933 OP
23 posts
 
Hello Martyki
Could you tell me more about the subs you used with the DeCapo

The deCapo is beautifully balanced as a stand-alone.  The presence thru treble is gently rolled off to balance the modest bass energy.  As a stand-alone monitor, it's really, really good and IMO one of the best values out there (which is why I bought mine).  When I added a subwoofer (for pretty much the same reasons stated in the OP), I loved the extra weight on the bottom end, but the sound as a whole went dull.  I tweaked it for a long time, but eventually moved on.  
  I agree the Decapo is a great speaker. Chamber music and jazz are great. But, I can't stand to listen to symphonic music on these speakers.
cjk5933's avatar
cjk5933 OP
23 posts
 
Hi BDP24
Wow. That's spooky.  I was looking at the Rythmik web site and the email notification with your post poped up on my screen.

You buy the DIY kit from GR Research or Rythmik Audio, the co-designers of the sub. It contains four 12" woofers (a pair for each of two subs) optimized for Open Baffle
Ok.  Open baffle? Is this a speaker with out a box?  Because that sounds like the opposite of everything I've read about subwoofers.  That is, that a closed box provides the best bass sound quality.  Ported boxes compromise sound quality to improve volume.
martykl
3,578 posts
 
Cjk,

Unfortunately, this was some years ago and I'm not 100% certain of my timeline.  Over the last decade plus, I've used both Velodyne SPL subs and (the far superior, IMO) Rythmik 12" subs extensively (among others, less extensively) with many different speakers.  I still own both sets of subs, tho the SPLs have been relegated to non-critical uses.  I may have well tried both with the deCapo, but I can't swear to it.

In any case, I don't think it was the choice of subwoofer that did in the combo.  IMO, subwoofers work best with neutral to somewhat bright monitors.  I'd call the deCapo neutral to somewhat warm in voicing.

YMMV, but I eventually concluded that the deCapo works better as a stand-alone.  IMO there are numerous monitors out there that work better with subs .... probably because they weren't as skillfully voiced to stand alone.  Just MHO.
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