LONDON Decca, Tzar DST and similar cartridges


I have always been curious about these phono cartridges and the Stereophile review of the Tzar DST has heightened my interest. When I read about the peculiarities of these cartridges, I am put off from trying them. Can anyone offer persuasive reasons to try them and also provide real practical advice on how to make them work reliably?  Tonearm suggestions? Phono preamp suggestions? Damping recommendations? How badly do they grind out record grooves?  Any other words of advice? Thanks. 
128x128kmccarty
Warren Gregoire, whom I've never met, seems to be quite a character. When I talked to him on the phone about the current Londons, he was rather brusque, coming across as someone who has had his fill of dealing with consumers, with which I can sympathize and fully understand. I felt as if I were being interviewed as a job applicant might be by an employer, and that I might not "qualify" to purchase a London from him. In fact, when he asked me who would be installing the cartridge in an arm, and thinking that if I said myself he might find that unacceptable, I replied Brooks Berdan (I actually intended to do it myself, but was thinking I would have Brooks double-check my job and hook my table up to his scope and other machines). To my utter astonishment, he had never heard of Brooks! Brooks was only the most widely known turntable man in the country (Bill Johnson flew Brooks out to Minnesota to set-up the tables in the ARC listening room, and had him out to his home here in the California desert to do his personal table). Warren asked me why would I have a dealer who hadn't sold me the cartridge mount and align it? And, hadn't I ever done it myself? After assuring him I had, including a couple of Deccas, and quite a few arms and other cartridges, and explaining I was merely going to have this Brooks guy double check my work, Warren calmed down a little. He had actually told me he didn't think he would sell me a cartridge! Well!!  

Hi Kmmcarty
Kmmcarty - .....in my second floor stereo room

Curious...Have you heard your system kit on a ground floor / concrete slab?

Hi Normansizemore - quite the moniker you have :^)
thanks for your comments. There was recent discussions of the London Decca’s from owners on the Eminent Technology ET2 thread. These discussions re-piqued my interest in this cartridge. I think its the top contender for my next cartridge one day.
Cheers
Ct0517, I can't use my stereo system on the first without disrupting family life. I agree that would be better for turntables. 

Regarding Warren, I am not sure what his issues with my system are. Perhaps he isn't familiar with my turntables. 

Maybe someone could respond to the differences between the different London Decca models or refer me to a good thread that discusses them. Thanks!

I'll give it a shot, k. The five current Londons---the Maroon, Gold, Super Gold, Jubilee, and Reference, all share the same identical internal design and structure (how could it be otherwise?---it's what makes a London a London!), but differ in the quality of the materials used to make them, and in their assembly tolerances. The internal wire and coils in the Reference, for instance, are of a higher grade than in the lesser models, and the magnets are of the more expensive rare earth variety. The stylus profiles differ amongst models as well, the Maroon being Spherical, the Gold Elliptical, the Super Gold and Jubilee Extended Fine Line, and the Reference Ultra Low Mass Fine Line. Other than that, the difference between models is in the housing the internal guts are installed in.

The Maroon, Gold, and Super Gold share the same stamped tin housing of the Deccas of the 70's, along with the old Decca mounting bracket, a real pos! The bracket is a somewhat flexible red block of molded plastic, the top of which is bolted to the head shell. The cartridge slides onto the bracket, the electrical signal from the cartridge passing through electrical contacts in the bracket to pins on it's rear for your arm wires. It's a terrible mounting and connection design, but you don't have to put up with it. London offers the Decapod, an aluminum block which replaces the bracket, and is installed as the top of the cartridge at the London factory. DO NOT BUY A LONDON CARTRIDGE WITHOUT THE DECAPOD!

As for the tin housing, Decca users have long applied various substances onto it's exterior in an attempt to lessen the resonances it exhibits; modeling clay, Blu Tack, Sorbothane, etc. Even with the resonances of the housing addressed, the cartridge is somewhat microphonic, one reason the Townshend Rock turntable is a favorite with Decca/London enthusiasts---the Rock's damping system eliminates that microphony remarkably effectively, making it a non-issue.

The Jubilee was developed to address the issue of the sonic consequences of the tin metal housing. It's more solid, less resonant/microphonic structure allows more of the Decca design's potential to be realized, and is considered by some (Warren Gregoire, for one) to offer more of an upgrade from the Maroon, Gold, and Super Gold, than the Reference does to it. The Jubilee's housing eliminates the need for the Decapod as well, having threaded mounting holes in it's top surface, and the normal cartridge pin design.

The Reference really brings the Decca design into the 21st Century. A very stylish machined aluminum body/housing, like other top cartridges. Superior parts and assembly tolerances, hand built by John Wright, the designer of the Reference, and owner of London.

So which London to get? As always, it's a question of system balance, the most effective allocation of your Hi-Fi Dollars/Pounds (in honour of the Britishness of Decca/London ;-), and, most importantly, of course, the other parts of your record player. There is no point in spending the extra money for the Reference if your pick-up arm won't allow it's superiority to the Jubilee to be heard. The great thing is, no matter which London you choose, it will have the Decca/London sound, unlike any other cartridge!  

I have been a Decca aficionado since the late 70s. I still have my  Garrott Brothers Gold, an old Maroon and a FFSSMkIV C4E rebuilt by John Wright. The vintage C4E is just stunning, significantly better than my Garrott Brothers cartridge (retipped by John Wright). I wouldn't sell my C4E - it would be one of the things you would have to rip from my dying hands.

However, no matter how good the Decca is, it doesn't beat a 15 IPS master tape - no way. I have three 15 IPS 2 track R2R decks and some master tapes (some distribution masters and some safety copies). The 15 IPS tape just stomps all over the Decca (installed in a rewired vintage Hadcock 228 on a Platine Verdier with GT Audio Battery PSU) - no contest!