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Want something more forgiving than Vandy 3a sigs

I think Mike Fremer's comment about the Vandersteen Quatros, in his Stereophile review, applies to the Vandersteen 3a sigs: "...treble performance may strike some as being too honest...". I'm one of those "some." We all know that a lot of source material out there suffers from some degree of treble emphasis. I listen to a wide range of classical and jazz recordings, and, even after a fair degree of experimentation with cables, pre-amps, and amps, I've been unable to come up with a combination that is sufficiently "forgiving" to allow me to listen, easily and comfortably, to as much of the source material that I want to hear on my Vandys. In particular, I'm often disappointed with orchestral string sound...and indeed, have figured out, with this experience, that massed strings are quite difficult to record well. My system starts with a Linn CD12. I've tried PSE, GNSC-modified ARC LS-15, Cary SLP2002, and am working with a Cary SLP98 now on the pre-amp side; and have tried a VTL ST150, a BEL1001, and an ARC VT100 MKIII on the amp side. I've used various Audioquest, Kimber, BEL, and Purist Audio cable, and am happiest with Cardas Cross and Golden Cross (to which I was led by things I read on this Forum). All of that is good gear, some of it more top-focused than others. None of it has been able to give me as consistently as warm and "lush" a listening experience as I think I ought to be able to find, and this is especially true with orchestral music. Probably not surprisingly, the Cary 2002 combined with the ARC VT-100 has leaned closest to the right direction. (Let me hasten to add, though, that a really well-recorded chamber music or jazz CD will often sound terrific with most of this equipment and the Vandys.) (I should also add that I came to the 3a sigs from the 2ce sigs, which I also felt were capable of being a bit unforgiving, frankly.)

Within Texas, where I live (and where I would prefer to buy), I've figured out that some options include Sonus Faber Cremonas, Audio Physic Scorpios, Wilson Benesh Circles (I think) and not much else (of which I am aware)that will fit into the room without creating domestic discomfort. (My wife thinks the Vandy's are too big as it is.)

Any ideas out there about the speakers mentioned, other speakers, or possibly electronics?
eweedhome
limbic
2 posts
 
Hi - I'm new to audiogon but have really appreciated the level of intelligence and experience in this community evidenced by so many threads. I do not have the breadth of experience most of you do, but I wanted to add a comment -- forgive me if someone else has addressed this and I somehow missed it -- but have you considered a really good tube amp to warm up the sound of strings? (I'm sensitive to this issue myself, and as a musician am constantly comparing various systems with the sound of real instruments in the room.) I would also say that the Manger speakers, driven by a tube amp (I know, the company recommends solid state --mostly for power, as the small zeroboxes are quite inefficient -- but I much prefer them with a tube) are downright miraculous with chamber, vocal, orchestral, etc.

(The system I'm most familiar with comprises mostly Linn components, with the exception of a Mark Levinson pre-amp and, for a while, a nOrh SE tube amp.)
eweedhome OP
227 posts
 
Thank you for commenting, Limbic. When I did the original post, I noted my system, which includes an ARC (Audio Research) VT 100 Mk III, which is a tube amp. But I didn't SAY it was a tube amp...we get so caught up in our shorthand, you know. I agree with you (also as a musician) that tubes, whatever their irritations, do some things really right, and one of them is strings. Even though I changed from the Vandersteens to the Harbeth speakers, I'm still using the VT 100, and I haven't found anything I like better.

Now, to be honest, I have no clue what you are talking about when you say "Manger" speakers. I believe someone else mentioned that name, and I wasn't sure what it was. Can you tell me about them (off line if you wish).

Thanks
bondmanp
1,790 posts
 
If you are able to audition Silverline Audio speakers, you might like what you hear. They are designed with a slightly lower output in the upper-mids/lower treble, and I liked what I heard from the Bolero model very much. I too am extremely sensitive to any emphasis or distortion in the brightness range. My modest Vandy 1Cs are likewise a bit "too honest" in this range, although I cannot rule out a contribution from my room and associated gear.

Also, although I have not heard them, Magnolia (inside many Best Buys) carries Vienna Acoustics. The reputation they have is for a very warm presentation that is easy on people with ears like ours.

Oh, and if you're in Texas, I can strongly recommend you hunt down Roman Audio. Their Centurian model (~6500/pr) would work well for you. I loved them the two times I heard them. Very smooth, transparent and liquid. Tube-friendly, too!

One last thought: I always thought that ARC tube amps had a rep for soomewhat coolish sound, despite the tubes. Although Vandersteens are often demo'd and paired with ARC tube amps, what about something warmer, like the Moscode?
eweedhome OP
227 posts
 
Bondman - Thank you for your ideas. I've not heard any of the speakers you mentioned, and I will keep them in mind.

You're certainly correct about the ARC reputation. Two things: My LS15 was modified by Steve Huntley at Great Northern Sound. It is no longer "cool" sounding. I bought it (unmodified) 2nd hand because I wanted to try the ARC "sound" knowing that Vandersteens were often paired with ARC. In stock condition, I really disliked it. I sent it to Steve on a lark, essentially (well, he has a great reputation, and told me he thought after he was through with it, I would feel much differently about it). He was right; it was an amazing difference.

Also, with the VT 100 amp, you get quite a different sound from the 4 ohm output tap than you do from the 8 ohm. Significantly warmer.

I've enjoyed the ARC equipment--used as described--more than I expected and more than several other pieces I've tried, including 2 Cary pre-amps.

I also like the Harbeths that I'm using now, instead of the Vandersteens. I may be too lazy, at this point, to change.
cmk
397 posts
 
Let me add my 2c.
I used to have the 2CE Sig, then powered by a 50w tube amp with lots of current. It sounded greated, but I couldn't get ride of an irritating ringing from the tweeter. My understanding was that the 3A Sig tweeter was supposed to be an improvement over the 2s. Anyway, I later sold them off and purchased the Cabasse Baltic/Thor combo which I am very happy with till now.

Many moons later while at a dealer/friend's shop, I again heard the 2CE Sig II(new model) which supposedly has the upgraded tweeter from the 3A Sig and it sounded surprising smooth and good, no irritating sounds from the well-behaved tweeter at whatever frequency it was. Further investigation reveiled that it was the amp powering the 2CE SigII which had such good control over the speaker even when pushed loud.

I therefore advise that you consider the Sanders ESL amp for your 3As.

Another point to consider is power supply. Some have raised it already, but I'm not sure if it was fully considered, especially with CD playback. Till now I have always used the PS Audio P300 in "sine" mode to power all my source equipment. While the multiwave has always been recommended by the manufacturer, I've found, after extensive listening, that while it does enhance detail, it does this to the detriment of the music's flow. The pure sine wave let the music flow more naturally and smoothly.

If a lot of users claim the 3As are laid back, its hard to image that it is at fault unless you have a lemon. So chances are the fault lies somewhere else - ie the power amp or the power supply.

Of course these are just my "guesses" based on my pass experience with Vandy speakers, but I think you should not give up on them so easily. Going to an all warm setup may not be the best solution as it will tend to mask detail. As a musician, I think musical coherence in terms of tonal accuracy and musical timing are paramount to your enjoyment of the music.
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