Want something more forgiving than Vandy 3a sigs


I think Mike Fremer's comment about the Vandersteen Quatros, in his Stereophile review, applies to the Vandersteen 3a sigs: "...treble performance may strike some as being too honest...". I'm one of those "some." We all know that a lot of source material out there suffers from some degree of treble emphasis. I listen to a wide range of classical and jazz recordings, and, even after a fair degree of experimentation with cables, pre-amps, and amps, I've been unable to come up with a combination that is sufficiently "forgiving" to allow me to listen, easily and comfortably, to as much of the source material that I want to hear on my Vandys. In particular, I'm often disappointed with orchestral string sound...and indeed, have figured out, with this experience, that massed strings are quite difficult to record well. My system starts with a Linn CD12. I've tried PSE, GNSC-modified ARC LS-15, Cary SLP2002, and am working with a Cary SLP98 now on the pre-amp side; and have tried a VTL ST150, a BEL1001, and an ARC VT100 MKIII on the amp side. I've used various Audioquest, Kimber, BEL, and Purist Audio cable, and am happiest with Cardas Cross and Golden Cross (to which I was led by things I read on this Forum). All of that is good gear, some of it more top-focused than others. None of it has been able to give me as consistently as warm and "lush" a listening experience as I think I ought to be able to find, and this is especially true with orchestral music. Probably not surprisingly, the Cary 2002 combined with the ARC VT-100 has leaned closest to the right direction. (Let me hasten to add, though, that a really well-recorded chamber music or jazz CD will often sound terrific with most of this equipment and the Vandys.) (I should also add that I came to the 3a sigs from the 2ce sigs, which I also felt were capable of being a bit unforgiving, frankly.)

Within Texas, where I live (and where I would prefer to buy), I've figured out that some options include Sonus Faber Cremonas, Audio Physic Scorpios, Wilson Benesh Circles (I think) and not much else (of which I am aware)that will fit into the room without creating domestic discomfort. (My wife thinks the Vandy's are too big as it is.)

Any ideas out there about the speakers mentioned, other speakers, or possibly electronics?
eweedhome

Showing 2 responses by limbic

Hi - I'm new to audiogon but have really appreciated the level of intelligence and experience in this community evidenced by so many threads. I do not have the breadth of experience most of you do, but I wanted to add a comment -- forgive me if someone else has addressed this and I somehow missed it -- but have you considered a really good tube amp to warm up the sound of strings? (I'm sensitive to this issue myself, and as a musician am constantly comparing various systems with the sound of real instruments in the room.) I would also say that the Manger speakers, driven by a tube amp (I know, the company recommends solid state --mostly for power, as the small zeroboxes are quite inefficient -- but I much prefer them with a tube) are downright miraculous with chamber, vocal, orchestral, etc.

(The system I'm most familiar with comprises mostly Linn components, with the exception of a Mark Levinson pre-amp and, for a while, a nOrh SE tube amp.)
Dear Eweedhome,
Thanks for the clarification about your amp -- you're correct, I didn't realize the ARC VT100 was tube. Always good to learn something new!

About the Manger speakers.... happy to describe them a bit. They're German-made (and thus rhyme with "longer" as opposed to "danger") and use a unique bending-wave, full-range (80-33,000Hz!) transducer. The plentiful technical details are available on the Manger web site (I tried copying the url into this message, but it's too long for the English-Language version, so I'd just Google "Manger speakers" and poke around what comes up. Manger UK is one of the first hits, and you can download pdfs with all the technical information).

If you want to audition them, the U.S. dealer will ship them to you for an in-home workout, along with a demo CD produced by Manger bearing an extraordinary range of sounds, from church bells pealing to Livingston Taylor whistling to orchestra, etc. I have never been so astonished as when I first hooked up these speakers (and many friends had the same reaction): I could have sworn there was someone right in the room whistling -- and it didn't matter if I was in the "sweet spot" or not. They sound just as realistic being overheard from the next room. They capture the woody, organic feel of live instruments (John Eliot Gardner's Bach cantatas never sounded so full and stirring); they are lush and smooth, crystal clear, there is no roll-off in the upper treble. And all this with the smallest speakers they make, the zerobox 109's!

I've compared the Manger zeroboxes side-by-side with a number of much more expensive speakers, including horn Trios, and to my ears they outshone every one of them except the $100+K horns for a fraction of the price (around $7K now, I think). Granted, they were also being driven by a variety of high-quality components, but still...

Speaking of other components, I've heard these speakers with a number of different amps, both solid state and tube. Despite the fact that the U.S. Manger dealer (and Daniela Manger herself) recommend solid state amps because the zerobox 109's are relatively low efficiency and sensitivity (4 ohms and 88 dB), and the reviewer at tnt-audio.com speculated that tube amps might, with their warmth, be too much of a good thing (though he didn't listen to that combo), my then-husband and I found that quality tube amps simply allowed the speakers (and the music) to sound the most real, immediate, moving, involving. (It was during these tests that I discovered the glories of the Wavac $20K tube amp.... sigh!)

Strangely, the company seems to suffer from bad marketing decisions, kind of like Apple before the iPod (superior product, small market). They've done little to promote their product, even hurting sales by weirdly recommending some rather low-end component accompaniments that don't do the speakers justice. (They started out, years ago, selling the driver by itself to DIY-ers who would make the speaker boxes, and this early history of frugality has persisted, to their detriment.) But the vast majority of people who have actually heard them, both professional reviewers and "laymen", are blown away by them. I think those of us who listen primarily to acoustic music are the most appreciative of their qualities.

Hope you get a chance to thoroughly test them out some day.

best,
limbic