Gilmore Audio planars revealed

mejames, agreed.

sellerwithintegrity? WTF? you are such an unabashed promoter that IMO you should always and immediately insert the caveat that you sell whatever you promote. you have no credibility here---which is why you have the "withintegrity" moniker...anyone who's been around long enough knows that someone who ardently claims to be something enough..probably isn't...

brainwater: i finally caught your earlier post: typical markup in hi-fi is 5x over COG (as noted in Sterophile). so, using that metric, WP7s cost 4.5k in materials to make--and lets not forget wilson's name cache & outstanding dealer network/support---that is part of the markup's benefit. gilmore---no comparison---i'd bet its markup is more like 7x, and his dealer network and brand cache cannot compare to wilsons. source the drivers, the corian, and the parts for the x-over...you want to tell me that's 7.5k or so (i.e. 2x markup)? no chance---figure 2-3k cost, 5-7x markup.

keeping it real.
rhyno

keeping it real, good idea. for starters, let's look at sellerwithanattitude's statement "Again, we make our own (as we do the ribbons)" last time i heard, Fernando Mack makes the ribbons. "we"? i see carveraudio.com has some interesting comments from people who've dealt with Fernando. maybe this time will be different, let's hope so.

the dates seem to be slipping. what happened? it was gonna be november and now it's late march for their dealers and april for customers, just in time for people to forget about audio till the fall.

Before judging these speakers off of aesthetics or rumors or innuendo, you really need to hear them.

Not only hear them, but spend a little time with them. I told a few people to listen to this speaker at CES. Unfortunately, a several of them walked into the room, may have listened for 5-10 minutes of the material playing, then walked out. They ended up not having the greatest impression of these speakers. I know listening conditions at shows are generally not optimal; unfortunateley many people at shows (and sometimes I fall into this trap) do not give eqipment a fair chance to show how it can perform.

Thus, if you really want to judge these speakers, the Gilmore's will be available at home showrooms for demonstrations in the near future. Home showrooms are almost invaribly better than Show conditions.

I have heard the Gimore speakers (model 2 and 3) in several differently configured systems. And after every time I hear them, it pains me to go back and listen to my home reference system. The Gilmore speakers are so much better than my Vienna Accoustic Mahler speakers, it is not even funny. I am talking not even the same sport much less league.

The price tag of the Gilmore speakers I will admit is pretty hefty. Not everyone can afford to plop down $14k-$20k on speakers. However, even at these price points, I think the Gilmore speakers are the best I have ever heard (by a pretty good margin).

The other way one could look at justifying this speaker price is to look long term. If you buy speakers for say $10k either new or used AND you turn those over (sell those) speakers every two years your depretiation will be somwhere around 3k-7k every time you sell. If bought used it will probably lean towards the $3k value. If bought new it will probably be closer to $7k. Let's take an average of $5k or $2.5k a year you effectively pay to have speakers. Going this rout, in less than 6 years you have spent the money in depretiation that could have bought you some Gimore Model 3 speakers (around $15k). And in those 6 years, you have listened to speakers that are vastly inferior to the Gilmores. No $10k speaker touches the Gilmore's IMHO. And take into effect, I think the Gilmore speakers can easilly last me 10 years. Maybe at 10 years, there will be something better... Maybe another Gilmore speaker. After 10 years I will have spent $19.5k on the Gilmore speaker. And I would still have a speaker that shold be easilly worth $7k+ on the used market. Thus I would have spent about $12.5k for 10 years of listening bliss (or 1.25k a year). If I changed $10k speakers every two years for 10 years I'd have sunk about $25k into speakers during that time, and I would have ended up with a speaker that is worth for $3k-$5k (call it $4k). Thus, I would have sunk about $21k into listening to a different $10k speaker every 2 years. Thus, the cost of Gilmore model 2 ownership over 10 years is about 50% of what it costs to own a different $10k speaker every 2 years.

Anyway my main points are:
1 - Please give the Gilmore speakers a chance if you are interested in hearing a speaker which IMHO is simply AMAZING.
2 - If interested, schedule an appointment with a home demonstrator, and you will not be disappointed. Heck, even if you do not necessarilly want to BUY the speakers now or even in the near future, it would be good for more people to hear these speakers. (Sometimes I think I am the only one that hears something as GREAT or AMAZING sonically; however, invaribly I am vindicated by others who hear as I do).
3 - Sometimes you have to pay a bit more up front for quality. However, if you keep the item of quality for an extended period of time (because it is much superior to it's peers), you will find that the actual cost of the quality item is less than you think (on an annual basis).
4 - If my above numbers do not fit for your situation, run the numbers for your speaker habbits. Maybe you only turn over speakers every 3 years? Maybe you turn speakers over ever year? Run the numbers and BE HONEST with yourself on how much you spend and how much speakers depreciate (big speakers tend to have the worst depretiation short of high end digital). The typical audiophile does not do long term number's analysis IMHO because the numbers can be just too depressing. I know I have lost untold thousands and thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars on audio experimentation. If I had gotten what I really loved with the first purchase (even at full retail price), I'd be far ahead (financially) of what I am today.

KF

Keith, I find it difficult to imagine a post like the preceding being written by anyone having no stake in the product in question. I can't recall ever having read so expansive a hypothetical analysis advocating a particular product written on Audiogon by anybody merely offering their independent opinion (however objective or subjective) about gear they simply have had positive personal experience with. Not a pejorative implication, but just an impartial observation from one not inclined to drink much Kool-Aid...

Perhaps one of THE home dealers?

I suspect I am OFF the list of possible as I failed to fall in line at CES with glowing compliments. One must not question any part of the plan. You must be a "yes" man with enthusiasm to be part of the chosen few.

My conservative nature and desire to look before I leap simply doesn't cut it in this case. My problem is, I must believe completely in something before I sell it to a stranger.

My first job in the sound business was a sales job at the high end store I bought my first system from.

If the customer ask for a specific product that was really right for the rest of their system, I would encourage them to wait, come back in and pick it up when our next shipment came in.

My boss got so mad at me for not taking their money (selling what was in stock, right or wrong), that one afternoon he sat me down, pointed his finger in my face and said: "Leave your Gxxx damn conscience at home, your here to sell."

If I had learned from that lesson, I would have become a more successful salesman, at least from the standpoint of money.

Problem would be living with myself, trying to remember what the "truth" was for that day and watching the passion, magic and fun destroyed.