2. amps-preamps
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Time for a total system upgrade

Hello Audiogon members! I never imagined a site like this existed! Who ever put it together should be appropriately rewarded! Let me introduce myself: I’ve enjoyed music all of my life, played trumpet for about 10 years, and have listened to quite a bit of live music. During college, of all times, I discovered “audiophile” equipment and so began the affliction! Now, after a long hiatus from serious investment in listening equipment – career changes and finally Grad school – it’s time to update the system. Quite honestly, I’m kind of giddy about finally having some money to spend on the sound system. After all, it’s probably a better investment than my 401K! But let’s not open that wound… Let me start by listing the current components (please, no laughing!):

Audible Illusions Modulus 2B preamp
Superphon DM200 dual mono power amp
Sony DVD/CD player – moderate quality, non-progressive
AR turntable and arm – unmodified
Benz Micro cartridge
Techniques Tuner – el cheapo
Various Monster interconnects
NHT 1.5 with stands
Phase sub woofer

Here’s what I’d like to do: update the 2-channel system and add home theater. I realize this will necessitate certain trade-offs at the outset. Would like to keep a dedicated 2-channel system that can run through an analogue bypass in the HT pre/pro. The ratio of music to HT is about 50-50. Music includes classical, jazz, Black gospel choirs (wife), female vocals and some contemporary stuff. Here’s the budget so far, but I’ve got some wriggle room if really justified:

Multi-channel power amp - $1500 (used or demo)
HT Pre/Pro - $1500 (used or demo) must have component video out
Progressive DVD/CD - $800 (new, used or demo)
Main speakers (for now, NHT’s move to the rear for 5.1) - $1500 – 2000
Center channel speaker - $500
Update the Tube pre - $1200 (used or demo)

What has worked with the current system: soundstage, some detail and transparency, good volume capability without any listener fatigue. What it lacks: bass that’s integrated and not tubby, more detail and transparency, 5.1 capabilities. I’ve come to enjoy, perhaps prefer, the tube sound for a pre, but still want the power and transient response of the SS amp. Here’s what I’ve listened to so far:

Rotel RMP 1075, 1095, RSP 1066, RDV 1080
Anthem MCA20, Anthem AVM20
Classe stuff, but out of the budget
Sony DVP S9000ES
B&W 604 series, CDM9NT’s
Paradigm Studio 40’s and 100 v.2

Also considering:
B&K Reference 30
B&K 7250
Anthem AVM2
Anthem MCA 50
New tube preamp? (Anything from Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, etc)
Energy Veritas 2.3 speakers

So here’s the subjective part. And believe me, I know these are just my very uninformed opinions. One significant thing I’ve noticed so far is listener fatigue, something I’ve never before experienced. This occurs after several hours of critical listening in dedicated rooms. Don’t know if this is the SS preamp, speakers or what. Whatever the case, I can’t imagine investing in new gear that’s fatiguing. In terms of music reproduction, the B&W 600’s were quickly eliminated. The CDM 9nt had very good detail and transparency, but lacked a solid bottom end. The Paradigm 100 v.2 had a tremendous bottom end, almost too much, but sounded rather veiled when compared to the CDM 9nt (same electronics). Have thought of using the CDM 1NT for the mid and high detail in combination with a pair of good subs to drive the bottom end.

What are your thoughts and recommendations on the new system? Rather than a 5-channel amp, would it make any sense to add 2-channel and 3-channel amps to preserve a dedicated 2-channel system? BTW, sorry for the HUGE post. Thank you very much for taking the time to read and respond!
horn_blower
horn_blower OP
12 posts
 
Judit,

Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. Your point is well taken. I'm leaving the 2-channel alone for now and focusing on the HT. In retrospect, the post probably had too much information, though the intent was to give readers context. None the less, guess I've learned how not to get help from forum members. Thanks again Judit.
socrates
247 posts
 
Only advise I could offer is just go listen. Go to every dealer within a couple hours drive and see what you like with your evolved and unique tastes. I know what I like, but I only know that having heard many, many dozens of setups in dealers showrooms and more so from passing countless pieces of gear through my own system to get things 'right.' Suggestions for a single piece of gear given your tastes are easy, but asking someone to create a whole system for you is just not going to happen....
jayctoy's avatar
jayctoy
3,811 posts
 
I agree with Socrates, I think he is right on the money
here.
cdc
1,698 posts
 
For non-fatiguing try the Vienna Acoustics line. Easy to audition at Tweeter's etc. Beware, B&K is said to be bright -dunno, I haven't compared.
Mission and ATC are also less fatiguing. ATC may be hard to find but a league ahead of mission for dynamic punch but still very smooth and non-fatiguing. Really try to find these speakers, I think you will be impressed.
B&W 600, especially bright with Teac - also related to distortion. Combination can be brutal.
tsmack
35 posts
 
I have the Paradigm reference 100 v2 fronts with the rest of the Paradigm reference HT speakers including a pair of studio 20s for rears running 7.1 with Anthem AVM20 v2. I also have the Anthem MCA50. I have been down this path as well and built the home theather portion first, then integrated 2 channel into my system. I think you will be hard pressed to find another speaker system that will out perform the paradigm setup for the money. Be careful when auditioning the 100s as they do take a while to break in and they also need at least 200w driving them to show what they will really do. A less expensive route to start would be to look at the studio 60s which are great speakers, but really need a sub in place for home theater. I would recommend a relatively cheap dvd player that is progressive scan only if your tv can take advantage of it. Why? Because most dvd players today are very good and you must spend quite a bit to get the good stuff. I would rather see you get a nice cd player and a cheaper dvd player to have both 2 channel and HT up front and the source is key to 2 channel. I went with the Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000 with upsampler. With Amperex tube upgrade you will not find anything better for the money. The Anthem products are quite awesome at their price point. I would suggest buying the MCA50 over two separate amps unless you have plenty of room for 2 amps. The MCA5 mkII is another great alternative and can be found for under $1000 used. The AVM2 vs AVM20 hmmmm. I would strongly recommend the AVM20 if you can shell out the money. You will not need anything different for a long time, but if you do the AVM2 you will be wondering, what if I had.... My last upgrade was to drop in a nice 2 channel preamp with HT bypass. I wanted to preserve the XLR connections in my system and after talking to Kevin Deal at upscale audio I settled on the Cary SLP2002. Wow!!!! Now I feal like I have the best of both worlds. I think eventually I would like to try some different 2 channel amps, and then there is the continual question of which cables to buy but all in all I am quite pleased. The Studio 100s continue to amaze me as they seem to only shine when upgrades are made. To end it sounds like you have roughly $7500-8000 to spend.

AVM20 v2 ($3400 retail, around $2700 used)
MCA50 ($2000 retail, around $1400 used)
MCA5 mkII ($1600 retail, around $900 used)
Studio 100v2 ($1900 retail)
Studio CC ($500 retail)
Use you current DVD player unless you need progressive scan
Ah Njoe Tjoeb 4000 with upsampler and Amperex tubes (~$1100)
Cables - I would buy cables from Audiogon, I went with Nordost because of their quickness, which is awesome in HT. ($300-whatever you can afford) Cables do make a difference but diminishing returns set in given your front ends capabilities.

End total = Roughly $10,000 retail, which no one should ever pay. I would expect at least a 15% discount if not 20% if you purchased some of this new from the same dealer. Down the road you could add the 2 channel preamp if you think you need it. The AVM20 is really quite a nice preamp in itself, but I found a tubed 2 channel preamp worked better for me. Cary SLP2002 ($3000 Retail).
I did not mention a sub, but paradigm makes a killer sub for $700-800 the PW2200 and the servo 15 is $1500. Both are awesome for the money. Otherwise Rel is my suggestion if you really want a great sub that can shine for 2 channel listening. Storm III (~$2000) or Stadium III (better for HT at $3000).
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