Why Power Cables Affect Sound

Thanks people! My question is why are the cables cost more than some components. I am not a newbie just was a question for pondering. I actually build my own components (complete line will be out in 2019).

And that is the crux of the matter for me. The cost/benefit ratio is just not there unless you DIY. For the money, you would be better off buying multiple low-end Furman power conditioners and isolating your equipment into groups.

Best,
E

I think the argument can be made that the better a piece of gear’s power supply, the less sensitive it will be to power issues.

The argument can also be made that power cables may not be very cost effective.

My cost-effective balance is to ignore cables, wiring and sockets, and use an effective power conditioner as close to the gear as possible, and try to make separate zones of power.

That is, one for my sources and preamp, a separate for my Class D amps, and another for all my networking gear.

Within these, noise has to travel at least 2 filter sections to crossover.

I actually discourage the use of very large gauge electrical wiring (i.e. Romex). Having some impedance in the line can actually reduce noise a great deal. I don’t really want my amps that tightly coupled to the noise from my dishwasher for instance.

@areed622


This is why I love series mode surge protectors. Only one's I know of that work down in the audible range, around 3 kHz.
And yes, it is useful to keep noisy things like that "outside" of your cleaned up power or you will pollute it.


@jea48

I used to have a desktop lamp with a fluorescent lamp and when I looked at the garbage it was putting on the AC, wow! It was really horrible. You could hear it in my stereo too.

So if noise on the AC line can cause distortion in audio equipment, then it stands to reason, if, say a CDP is putting noise back out on the AC line, the noise will inter through the power cord of a preamp that is plugged into the same wall mains AC outlet as the CDP. Correct?

I have seen plenty of evidence for this happening with an oscilloscope. So I know for a fact that this happens on a technical level.

What I don't always know is how audible it is, unless you have a fluorescent lamp! :)

Also, how much value it is. I mean, I really was not given a mind and soul to spend money exclusively on power conditioning equipment, so sometimes the expense can seem really extravagant to me.

What I normally recommend is Furman with SMP and LiFT as really good, cost effective protection and noise reduction. Some units have multiple banks, so you can avoid cross-contamination. This is one of the low end models with both features:

https://amzn.to/2BI1N5U

They make higher end models too, but that is seriously good for the money.

Above that I love the PS Audio line, but they are pricey. PS Audio also uses the series mode protectors.

Please explain how the noise of the switching of a full wave rectifier in a power supply can pass back through the primary winding of the power transformer and through the power cord and end up on the AC mains.

Hi @jea48 ,
I'm not making the claim it can do this very well, I'm making the claim that you don't want that. In either direction. So, the idea that a broad-band AC cable is ideal seems misguided to me.

But to answer your question, please lookup "parasitic capacitance transformer." I'm afraid I do not have the experience with typical AC transformers to model how much of an effect this might be, but I will say it's' much closer to the realm of known engineering than a lot of other theories.

Best,
E

The electrons in a power cable are like a train with each electron acting as a train car. When a treble note is played, for example, the small gauge wires can react quickly because that “train” has much less mass than a large gauge conductor.

So, lets separate out audible quality from theory. Here, I do not discuss audible benefit, just theory.

I call what the OP posited the multi-way cable theory.

While it’s interesting, and I’ve seen a number of manufacturers take similar ideas either with Litz wiring, or with super low metal content connectors, I think it’s important to talk about how most linear power supplies work.

First, the incoming supply is 50 Hz or 60 Hz. That’s the signal you want to reach the power supply, so you do NOT want high frequencies coming in or going out. Anything besides these 50/60 Hz is noise and distortion.

Next, the power supply itself acts as an extreme low pass filter. It is trying to remove everything above DC. Again, you do NOT want high frequencies passing through it. In a separate thread there was an electrical engineer discussing how noise would make it past the power supply. Making power cables like you do audio cables (i.e. super transparent) would only make that worse.

Now, OP, I’m not arguing whether your power cables made a difference. I’m only arguing that the idea of transparency in a power cable is probably not you are liking about them.

In fact, I might argue that a cable with some impedance, and built in noise filtering is a better way to go.

I don't think that helping different bands be more transparent by itself would work. But!! There's this idea of laminar flow in fluids which is interesting.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laminar_flow

You can watch a video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=990jkBGHaVk&feature=youtu.be


The idea is that water can flow without turbulence, like if it was in layers, and each layer flowed independently of every other layer. That to me seems a better outcome for us in power cables.

It would be interesting to consider that it's' not about high and low frequencies, but about laminar flow of electrons through a conductor.

Of course, there are probably good theories which say it's' irrelevant, having to do with the speed of electrons vs. the speed of the electrostatic field, etc. but there are also some very interesting ways an enterprising soul could use to test if this was in fact working. I will state clearly I do not know. I wish I had time /energy/equipment to measure this, as it would be a fascinating new tool in cable design.


Best,

E

I remember reading an article where John Curl said he would spec a certain grade of components, for a piece of Parasound audio equipment he designed, only to be overruled the owners of the company saying it would make the price of the piece of equipment to high and price it out of the market competition.

I have read this before, and I feel it is unnecessary sour grapes.

I mean, sure, we all dream of cost is no object for all the gear we buy, or might envision, but the reality is that all engineers face cost / performance challenges. How they solve them is the mark of the very best engineers.

I like Paraound, I think the Halo line provides excellent value for money. Would I buy an A21 or A23 if it was 2x the cost? Probably not.
What would be interesting to me is to hear the difference. That is, what would a JC spec A21 sound like vs. what was produced. Would we hear it? Would we be willing to pay the price for the differences? That would absolutely be interesting.

Best,
E

If you visit the Cable Asylum forum you can read where many members build their own DIY power cords. You don't have to spend a fortune for a good power cord.

@jea45
I think if you care, this is a great idea! :)

I move stuff around far too often. I can't see myself making the perfect power cord that I would use for long, but DIY is the smartest approach I think.