Rushton,good point!To me though,I've spent too much time rationalizing the loss of AIR, brought about by damping the arm,to be to be anything other than a masking out of musical information.That is not to say that in the case of really crappy recordings it could not make them listenable,but,then what does one do?Add damping for the bad records,and,take it out for the junk?I don't have that much time in my day to fotz around like that!When producers re-release classic(not classical)music there is a real dilemma that they make as to how much info(noise) to leave on the recording.If you hear some of those re-releases they sound processed,which is what,to my ears anyway,damping does.Please don't think I'm trying to be condescending,If you like the music on a disc,and it is more listenable with some damping,then you should listen to what you prefer. |
Rushton,I just read the thread(review info,by Walker)and you may have struck on the fact that perhaps some cartridges could not suffer by adding a bit of fluid to the arm.His info does make sense and I'm always open to new ideas(not that this one is new).My only concern is that I have NEVER heard the benefit of damping with any of the cartridges that I've owned,and my friend's are strongly against the use of it.That does not mean that it could not be beneficial in some cases,I've just not run across any. |
I have had five different linear trackers. The main problems in my experience are the critical importance of the table being level along the dimension of the linear tracking, the high mass of such arms, and the great inconvenience of those using air bearings, namely that the compressors are noisy and need to have the condensation removed.
I really question whether they are dead, however. There is no question that when well set up, they have less intergroove distortion. |
Tbg...Sometime (when no one can see you), get a hold of a Sony PS X800 turntable with servo controlled linear tracking arm. The "main problems" with linear tracking arms that you cite are very accurate. The Sony arm approach is completely different, and in my experience, flawless. But you won't believe it until you try one. |
Actually, I once had a Sony linear tracking table, but I recall nothing much about it. It did bring me back into vinyl and to the purchase of a Rabco arm. When was the PS X800 made? |
Tbg...I got mine about 1980. Not all Sony linear tracking tables had the "Biotracer" servo controlled arm, and not all "Biotracer" arms were linear tracking. Being an Engineer, I naturally had to get the service manual and see how this thing worked. Holy smokes! Working with balistic missile guidance systems I have seen a lot of schematics and block diagrams, but this Sony design is about as complex as anything I have seen. In fact, that is my only criticism.
As a have mentioned before, I became a convert to linear tracking after attending a High End seminar about the design and setup of pivoting arms. I concluded that there was no practical way to get all those forces and angles right across the recorded area. True, as you say, linear tracking arms have their own set of problems, but I think that I found one that did not have them. |
I just stumbled on this thread. I guess I need to pull out my PS X 800 table and try it out again after all these years. If I recall correctly the "Biotracer" technology included active resonance supression in addition to servo tracking of the arm.
I bought mine around 1983. My biggest recollection is how great the inner third of LPs sounded in comparison to other tables at the time.
Of course, this was during my mid-fi period. I wonder what I'll think of it now? |
Sean,
Being a Sota owner, how does it stack up to the others? Which arm and cart? |
Oh yes. Linear tracking. Every vinyl audiophile's dream. The
idea is right, but most executions of the idea had flaws. For
example, the "buzz-buzz-buzz" of the Rabco as it tried to
maintain tangency with its servos. The nightmare of setups,
the big pops and poor cueing that sometimes flipped the
cartridge in strange ways, and on and on, not to mention
hum. All of these problems are solvable, but not with the
pocketbook of the average audiophile in mind. I would like
to try the new "megabuck" linear arms when my rich uncle
leaves me enough greenbacks. C. Miller, Columbus, OH |
I gave up on my Sony psx 800 some time ago. When you push the start button instead of going to the edge of the record and setting the arm down it just keeps on moving the arm til it's all the way across the record. You can get it to play by hitting the on button and then immediately hitting the stop and then manually cueing it to the record. The light that shines up through the slots in the table to sense record size failed as well and I thought the bulb must have burned out. Replaced the bulb and it still didn't light. The whole thing made me suspicious enough about the table that I stopped using it. I'm a bit surprised by all the buzz here regarding this table. I found it's sound disappointing by comparison to the Rabco I had owned previously.
Now I have a Goldmund Studio with the T3 arm.
By the way I think the "correct" term is tangential tracking. |
Just as an fyi... The terms "tangential tracking" and "linear tracking" both are acceptable. Of the manufacturers of these arms over the years, B&O, Rabco, Marantz and others used the term "tangential tracking" and Eminent Technology, Air Tangent, Walker Audio, Clearaudio, Kuzma and others used the term "linear tracking." All the rest of us (and most reviewers) just used the terms interchangeably.
. |
"Just as an fyi... The terms "tangential tracking" and "linear tracking" both are acceptable. Of the manufacturers of these arms over the years, B&O, Rabco, Marantz and others used the term "tangential tracking" and Eminent Technology, Air Tangent, Walker Audio, Clearaudio, Kuzma and others used the term "linear tracking." All the rest of us (and most reviewers) just used the terms interchangeably."
Be that as it may and regardless of who used what, conceptually these arms are attempting to maintain a proper tangential relationship to the groove all the way across the record rather than at just two points. Michael Fremer mentioned this in one of his recent articles. In his opinion and mine, linear is a misnomer. YMMV |
Willster...Your PS X800 is obviously broken. This happens to the best of equipment after 25 years. How it sounds probably has more to do with the pickup used. Most of the time mine was used with a Shure V15MR, and that particular pickup never sounded, or tracked, better. If you have given up on this TT you should sell it. You might be surprised what they sell for. |
Willster -
Lets not get too caught up in semantics. 'Linear Tracking' is the right term, as well as 'tangential tracking'. With a linear tracking arm, the cartridge follows a linear motion from the edge of the record to the center, as opposed to the arc of a pivoted tonearm. Hence - Linear. |
I go back an forth on such design. I think the servo system is not as bad as what people might think. It can sound excellent. My Yamaha PX2 is one great performer. |
I got my first linear tracker, a Garrard Zero-100, in 1974. When I first saw their ad I thought they had the Holy Grail. After getting the machine, I wished dearly for 2 things: that it was manual operation from the ground up, and that they had spent the money on the articulation. The arm would not track for beans!
A year later I found a Rabco ST-7 mounted on a Technics 1100 table, so it was the world's first straight tracker (the Rabco was built in 1968) on the world's first direct-drive table.
I had the Rabco until about 1989. It got heavily modified- carbon fiber arm, a much-updated servo control that worked really well (the arm was famous for skipping or lifting off the LP due to servo malfunction- their original 'servo' was a joke), modified counterweight and modified track.
I replaced is with an SME V and was a lot happier... but I have often thought about how to sort out the arm's weaknesses since. There is a company called THK that makes motion tracks that have no bearing slop, that integrated with more modern bearing designs and an LED activated servo would result in a world-class arm.
IMO/IME none of the air-bearing arms work very well as often they have more tracking angle issues than a good radial tracking arm due to flex in the cantilever of the cartridge.
I am glad I had my Rabco when I did- it did very well on the inner 1/3 of the LP so my records from that time are intact. |
I always wish someone can make a tonearm mounting system that allows you to install your pivot arm on it and then servo control its lateral movement, gliding one direction like the Rabco. Imagine a gliding armboard with your favorite pivot arm and then you can compare it to the fixed position in its typical pivot operation. Of course when operating tangentially, user has to neutralize the typical 23 degree offset angle at the headshell to zero degree. This will settle the argument against or for tangential servo arm. Manufacturers please take note. The THK system will work handily. |
What if I put an armboard on top of a THK motion track and use the Rabco part for sensor and motorization. I bet that will work if look bulky. Just imagine a Rabco mounted upside down. A typical 9" pivot arm will work just fine. The whole thing won't be able to sit on top of typical turntable plinth and it will have to be next to the plinth as a separate arm pot. It should work for tables like Teres or ones with small plinths. So many projects, so little time...... |
