Why isn’t more detail always better?

Hmm I have ohm Walsh speakers that are very wide dispersion/pseudo Omni…somewhat like mbl.

I never thought about it that way but sounds like they are good candidates to produce “bloom” as described.

I do always regard the ohm Walsh sound to be more like live music than most. That is their most unique sonic trait and why I always seem to levitate towards them.

Detail is at all frequencies. Dynamic range facilitates detail.

Most music occurs in the midrange including voice so detail there probably adds the most.

Interesting to consider most any decent speaker can cover midrange. Yet the results can vary so widely! How can one account for that? Detail including transients, frequency response, very low noise, dynamic range…… that’s it for me. Take out the detail and not much left. Isn’t 4K video resolution always better and always preferred? Just do it well! Who still wants a tv limited by technology from 20 or more years ago? Not me. Audio follows a similar pattern. Advancement in technology and applying it well is the key.

@asvjerry also to help clarify.

The Ohms are still the speakers that I want to listen to the most for pure musical enjoyment. Nothing new there…..it’s for all the same reasons as always. Ohms put the performers in your room best. If I must choose I prefer having the orchestra squeezed into my room like a mini concert venue.

Nearfield listening is for immersing yourself in the recording. It’s more about the recording itself and less about pure musical enjoyment.

Two totally different listening experiences. Both enjoyable in different ways.

Both benefit from more detail, dynamics, etc. All those good things that make music interesting. I’m getting more of that now than ever with some recent enhancements upstream.

It’s an interesting thing that I think you have to experience in order to appreciate.

I am fortunate that I get to enjoy the best of both worlds. YMMV

cheers!

@asvjerry Glad you asked.

The nearfield setup lets you peer deeply into the recording.

Like most people I am not using the Ohms for nearfield listening though I have tried that and it works quite well.

The detail the larger Ohms deliver in general depends a lot on what you feed them. They are currently very well fed off the same amp as the KEFs and there is nothing lacking.

If I had to choose only one speaker would still be my big Ohm F5s. Second choice would probably be somewhat larger KEFs. Blades would likely be the ultimate. But I am not really interested in any new big heavy gear these days. I’ve had success downsizing yet improving the sound in general by doing my homework and leveraging smaller and more cost effective products that take advantage of technical innovations.

Note that I do use a sub with the little ls50 metas and that combo set up well is hard to beat in smaller rooms at least and at listening levels considered safe for long term exposure.

I also have a pair of Italian crafted Sonus Faber floor standers that I got a very good deal on locally on the house. Those are lovely in all ways also but of course are way different.

I have different setups in different rooms. One smaller room has KEF ls50 meta speakers set up near field. That setup is revelatory when it comes to delivering every last morsel of detail in a recording. The better recordings simply bring the room to life! Totally enthralling! That’s a word I do not toss around very often.  
 

Give near field a chance!

@kevn thanks for that very comprehensive and insightful response. Enjoy the music!

It helps to understand the effect different frequencies have on the listening experience. There are charts out there that can be used for reference. I have one hanging on the wall in my main listening room.

You are initially at the mercy of your room in regards to how those listening experience determining frequencies pan out. DSP is the tool that best enables one to address that fact.

I’ve applied dsp to get a handle on how things sound in multiple rooms at home. Now I am at a much better place to be nitpicking the details (no pun intended).

Bringing up the room is a good point. I probably would not even be having this discussion before I started using DSP and room correction. I find It’s a whole new ballgame in regards to detail once your room acoustics have been accounted for.

Lots of Good responses so far!

@sns @dynamiclinearity @frogman  I think we are on the same page.

Too much detail can be very distracting I discovered that with a fantastic pushpull 45 amp in my system it was just too much.

I get that.

Myself, since a kid I’ve always had the goal of being able to hear all the details in a recording and have the sound keep drawing me in for extended periods of listening. I’ve been good with getting drawn in for long listening sessions for a number of years but experience told me I was not getting everything recordings may have to offer. So still working on that part hopefully moving forward without taking any steps backwards.

Fun🍾Fun🍾Fun🍾!

More detail is the Holy Grail. How that information is presented is where things get tricky.

I agree. The new amp is a second generation Class D design that uses GaN transistor technology. Seeing what the latest and greatest technology can (cost effectively) do with the sound I hear is always of interest to me. Done well, technical innovations can yield better results than was possible prior. The amp it replaces use a Hypex NCore Class D module that is now several years old and not GaN. That replaced an amp with older Icepower Class D technology done very well at the time by Bel Canto. None of these amps are slouches but each sounds much different for sure.

@noromance that’s everything for now. @ghdprentice mentioned bloom which is an interesting and related topic.

Interested in what others have to say about these things.   

So far, my standing position is that more detail done well (not inherently bright or fatiguing) is usually a good thing, but more bloom not as often. You have achieve the right amount of bloom to suit personal preference. Also I think recordings of acoustic instruments as mentioned above is where more bloom may be better for more. I listen to all genres including pop/rock and electronic. I want detail but no extra “bloom there”.

but that’s just me. Interested to hear what others think and why

@ghdprentice I know you are an Audio Research fan. I am as well and owned a sp16 pre amp for a number of years. I like ARC because it tends to have very good detail and minimal if any artificial “tube bloom” compared to a many others.

I am going with the SS Schit Freya S for now. Freya + adds a front panel switchable tube input stage to Freya S three non tube options including passive. Very nice features and sound for the price. I can see why there are many Schit fans out there. If I decide I need more bloom, I could upgrade to Freya + for just a few hundred bucks more. We will see.

My new amp definitely has very good detail and  attack and decay consistent with the review of similar older model. But it’s brand new so see how this plays out over time.  No tubes.   Also running from a newly acquired Schitt Freya S as in all solid state, so not expecting any “artificial” bloom. 

So from that it sounds like bloom and detail are both of benefit and it’s a personal preference thing how much of each,  but detail enhances bloom and bloom can obscure detail.   As usual, YMMV. 

More to consider regarding the relationship between bloom and detail:  

In high-fidelity (hi-fi) audio systems, detail and bloom can interact in ways that enhance the overall listening experience, but they represent distinct qualities. Here's how they relate:

### Relationship Between Detail and Bloom

1. **Complementary Qualities**:
   - **Detail can Enhance Bloom**: When a system reproduces detail well, it can provide a clearer context for the bloom. For instance, if individual instruments and vocals are well-defined, the warmth and richness of the sound (bloom) can be more appreciated without becoming muddy or indistinct.
   - **Bloom Can Mask Detail**: Conversely, if a sound system has excessive bloom—perhaps due to overly warm or colored components—it can sometimes mask finer details in the music. This can lead to a less precise listening experience where subtleties are lost in the richness.

2. **Balanced Presentation**:
   - The best hi-fi systems aim for a balance between detail and bloom. A system that excels in both areas allows listeners to enjoy the warmth and fullness of sound while still being able to pick out individual elements.

3. **Personal Preference**:
   - Some listeners may prefer a warmer, bloom-heavy sound that emphasizes musicality, while others might prioritize clarity and detail for a more analytical experience. The interplay between the two can greatly influence personal taste in audio gear.

### Conclusion
While detail does not directly create bloom, a system that reproduces detail effectively can support and enhance the perception of bloom, leading to a richer and more immersive listening experience. Balancing both qualities is key to achieving high fidelity in audio reproduction.

Here is an example of an amp that was rated very good in many categories including attack and decay. I like ETM reviews that rate gear in all these different areas.

https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0724/ClassD_Audio_Mini_GaN3_Amplifier_Review.htm

Guess what? I just bought and am trying out the latest just released model and it’s making me think about these things. This review of an older model helped to convince me to give the latest and greatest a try.

@sgordon1 yes, I am in fact looking for meaningful responses. 

Accuracy is cited as a factor in how gear produces “bloom”. Accuracy to me has similar meaning as “low distortion”. So it seems that low distortion would help produce accurate “bloom”.

I’m thinking since bloom (and/or attack and decay) is generally considered to be favorable, some might prefer gear that adds an “extra dose”. Like a little added sweetness to the tea. That’s where I think tube gear comes in. Extra bloom would seem to not necessarily mean less detail. Two different but related things.

In the context of high fidelity sound, "bloom" refers to a specific auditory phenomenon that enhances the listening experience. It is often described in relation to musical instruments, particularly pianos, but can also apply to audio equipment and recordings. Here are some key points about what bloom means in high fidelity sound:

1. **Definition**: Bloom is characterized by a temporary increase in volume or richness of sound that occurs shortly after a note is struck. This effect can make the music feel more vibrant and engaging.

2. **Natural Occurrence**: In acoustic instruments, bloom is a natural result of how sound waves develop after the initial strike. For example, when a piano key is pressed, the sound may initially decay but then swell slightly before fading away, creating a sense of fullness and depth in the tone [[3]](https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2453646/bloom-exactly-what-is-it-and-how-is-it-achieved.html).

3. **Emotional Impact**: The experience of bloom can evoke strong emotional responses in listeners. It allows certain musical passages to resonate more deeply, making the music feel more immersive and lifelike [[2]](https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60257.0).

4. **Influence of Equipment**: In high fidelity audio systems, the quality of the equipment can significantly affect the perception of bloom. Well-designed audio gear can reproduce this effect more accurately, enhancing the overall listening experience [[1]](https://oeksound.com/manuals/bloom/).

5. **Variability**: The presence and quality of bloom can vary between different instruments and recordings. Some pianos, for instance, are noted for their ability to produce a pronounced bloom, while others may not exhibit this characteristic as clearly [[3]](https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2453646/bloom-exactly-what-is-it-and-how-is-it-achieved.html).

In summary, bloom in high fidelity sound refers to a desirable auditory effect that enhances the richness and emotional impact of music, influenced by both the instrument and the audio equipment used.

---
Learn more:
1. [bloom user manual - Oeksound](https://oeksound.com/manuals/bloom/)
2. [What Exactly Is " Tube Bloom" ?](https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=60257.0)
3. ["Bloom"...exactly what is it and how is it achieved? - Piano World Piano & Digital Piano Forums](https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2453646/bloom-exactly-what-is-it-and-how-is-it-achieved.html)

Here’s a summary of what I can find regarding bloom in hifi sound.   But what is the relationship to detail?   I don’t see how detail done right (low distortion?) can negatively influence bloom.   I’ve read reviews of SS gear as well as tube gear that reviewers rate highly on attack and decay.  Not sure about bloom.  

@ghdprentice what does “bloom” mean? How do you know it when you hear it? Is that something other than attack and decay? Doesn’t more detail help with that as well? Is detail not relevant for “bloom”? Eq can help adjust midrange tonality. I’m thinking it’s an artifact of tubes. Does detail with tube gear not matter?

I’m truly having trouble understanding how detail done well can be a bad thing.    Done wrong…I get that.