Axelwahl, I noticed that thread got "lost". Doesn't surprise me. It is a real pity that a lot of decent information/contribution/experience had to get disappeared because a couple of guys couldn't keep their elbows down in a crowd. It's not the first time that the same crew has been responsible for a decent thread with decent information getting disappeared.
FWIW, it is a shame that the moderators could not do something like the Audioasylum moderators do and just move the offending thread line to a different thread in a "dead end" category (make those threads permissioned so that they only show up on the "My Threads" list of those who posted the offending remarks). |
D,
For those of us who WERE pained, I thought that was a Roman (can't remember who offhand, but my 3rd-year Latin teacher was always good for a pithy quote)
But yes, it is a handy quote.
FWIW, I have seen several people mention wrapping a tonearm tube with something in order to dampen vibration. I am wondering where that vibration goes... It is not sinked into something else, so perhaps it just disappears into the air, whereas if the tonearm tube was not wrapped in whatever, it would not dissipate into the air... Someone care to enlighten me how that works? |
Axel, the "failure to communicate" line is actually from CoolHand Luke. I think you might be looking for... Hartmann: I am Gunnery Sergeant Hartman, your Senior Drill Instructor. From now on, you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and last words out of your filthy sewers will be "Sir!" Do you maggots understand that?
Recruits: [in unison] Sir, yes, sir!
Hartmann: Bulls&!t! I can't hear you. Sound off like you got a pair!
Recruits: [louder] Sir, yes, sir!
Hartmann: If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training... you will be a weapon, you will be a minister of death, praying for war. But until that day you are pukes! You're the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human f#@&ing beings! You are nothing but unorganized grabasstic pieces of amphibian s&!t! Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me, the more you will learn. I am hard, but I am fair! |
Echoes of the "old skool" thread are coming out, and that was not the first big analog thread this year which got the magic eraser applied to it. If participants state what they state, disagree with one another, rebut once, rebut twice, then agree to disagree, we might be able to save information for posterity. Diatribes which do nothing but talk about the other person (and I realize that my last post might sound like that but I was simply posting a comment to someone else's comment; I have no particular ax to grind - though I love listening to that monologue) are what get threads deleted. |
Pär, Just in case the posting rules might not allow him to say so, Atmasphere is the manufacturer of a tube-based fully-differential balanced phono stage embedded in his all-tube fully-differential balanced preamps (either the MP-1 or MP-3) found here. I am not aware of a separate phono stage product. |
Frank (Berlinta),
Thanks for your detailed/clear explanation. Despite similar things being said earlier, it was quite clearly stated. Your comment about spring tension being altered based on record thickness is true for most short springs, but there is no reason why one could not make a longer spring. Also, if the spring mount was tied to the VTA-adjustment base, when you adjust for VTA it would keep spring tension constant across record thickness.
Separately, I'd be interested to hear what people thought about spring dampening materials. |
Because of many threads in the past, some now deleted, most of us know that in these analog threads there are two people who are much more alike than not...
a) One person loves music, enjoys analog more than digital, has acquired a bunch of interesting knowledge over the years, has tried (and still owns) a bunch of turntables, tonearms, carts, has helped build a phono/line-stage, is designing/building a tonearm, has ambitions to design/build other stuff, occasionally sells on Audiogon stuff he has talked about in the past, and does NOT think the FR-60 series tonearms are good tonearms.
b) The other loves music, enjoys analog more than digital, has acquired a bunch of knowledge over the years, has tried (and probably still owns) a bunch of tonearms, carts, has built a TT, is designing/building a tonearm, has designed/built/had built a line/phono stage, and a bunch of other equipment to go with it, has sold things he talks about on Audiogon in the past, and thinks the FR-60 tonearms are better than the other gives them credit for being...
I think there are three possibilities here:
1) it is a shadow conspiracy. There are two people out there with some decent knowledge who at times are polite and can actually virtually exist in the same space. They contribute to a thread which becomes informative, then almost without fail they suddenly turn on each other and do their utmost to kill off the thread and get it removed from the public space. The conspiracy is to remove the analog threads from the archives so that they can later publicly "make up", then release an expensive book called "R&D on Analog", effectively selling us back all the the knowledge that had accumulated in these fora, but making it available to us analog lovers for the low, low price of $100 a pop.
2) it is a biblical sign ("And Brother shall turn against Brother") of imminent unholy retribution being visited upon mankind for our accumulated sins against each other... or...
3) it is a couple of putzes who, if they were neighbors, would compete by having beautiful (but different) gardens which everyone could admire and talk to them about, and would do the rest of their neighbors the service of not talking to each other, but because this is the internet, can't seem to manage even that.
Hmmmm.... Occam's Razor would suggest... |
D (and others),
I can envisage the practical difficulties of applying dynamic balancing force onto a unipivot bearing. I can see similar problems if a magnetic bearing is not otherwise stabilized. However, if the thread/magnetic/hydraulic/whatever bearing has more than one support point, doesn't give the same stability as, at a minimum, a double knife-edge? |
Mark,
Are you implying that in all situations where the effective mass or "inertial mass" (not sure which one you mean, or if you mean to say they are the same) is 25g, and the effective length is identical (let's just say that the combination of total mass at the effective length is identical and the effective length is identical), that the maximal variation due to warp riding (which you put at 6.2nM) will be identical, regardless of compliance of cart, and regardless of what force mechanism is keeping the stylus on the record? |
Kirkus,
I don't get your last comment (unless Mark's comment that effective mass = moment of inertia divided by square of effective length is wrong). If Mark's equation is right, the two could be different and still result in an identical third (effective mass) value.
Mark,
The reason I asked my question above was that I thought, as Kirkus later suggested, that the compliance is in series with the moment of inertia on any change in aspect of the record (which we know has a VTF delta, but also has a VTA delta). I have forgotten much of my physics (and probably never knew as much as you have forgotten, even though it seems you haven't forgotten anything) but I would have thought the compliance was a significant 'external force' with regard to the d"Alembert principle.
In any case, leaving aside compliance effects, I would have thought that for a given mass of cartridge at the end of a given tonearm length, a spring-loaded system would reduce the effective length of a tonearm vs a gravity-loaded system. Would this not mean, assuming identical mass and tonearm length, that a spring-loaded system had a lower moment of inertia? Hmmm... Am I taking the number out of one side and not both?
I should go read a textbook again... |
