Why high-end cable manufacturers don't post measurements?


I'd like to get your take on why high-end manufacturers don't post measurements? would you like to see how a cable measure before ....does it matter to you?
scar972

Showing 15 responses by ieales

I don't know that I have ever seen a cable thread on this site that has actually benefitted audiophiles in making superior audio systems.
Ditto equipment reviewers.
b4icu:
bewildered 4 i can't understand?

A/C signals react with LCR. If they didn't, crossovers would not work.
L & C are squared terms, R is linear.
Your cables have MASSIVE L & C and are thus tone controls.

Damping Factor is DC.
Which one is the one for me, for you or for some other?
As I said before, do the math.

A great problem in audio is ignorance of even the most fundamental concepts which makes consumers easy prey for charlatans. I might tell you what I have and why it works for me, but any recommendation with out hearing your system in your space is idiotic. IMO, this is what gave rise to burn-in.

Far too many systems are nothing but HiFi Jewelry and completely incapable of presenting a reasonable facsimile of the source material. Badly flawed source leads to badly flawed systems. You may like but a 6 foot hi-hat or solo vocal extending from speaker to speaker, but they are grossly wrong.

EVERY SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATION ON LINE IS WORTHLESS!!!
speedbump6: I did not say every. I said specific. 

For example: In another thread, I stated the requirements for sub-woofer controls and "Among others, the Martin Logan x series have all of the above."

Almost every other responder recommended what they own. 

¿Comprende, amigo?
So what is your mission or drive?
Protect the uneducated from charlatans.
I’d be curious to examine the 0/8 interface. If it’s soldered, it’s likely a dry joint. If crimped, an incomplete contact using a fraction of the actual wire gauge. Perhaps it’s a couple of ring terminals with a bolt?

Are the cables twisted or spread out as a pair with inconsistent separation giving roller coaster inductance?

Care to post the technical details, with photos, b4icu?

And, oh yeah, R is least troublesome of LCR. Do the math.
Start low and move up slowly till desired result achieved.
Cost has ZERO correlation to sonic quality as RESULTS ARE DEPENDENT ON THE REST OF THE SYSTEM!

Because there aren't any measurable differences between any reasonably designed cables.
Check out http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/CableSnakeOil.php for how cables interact with components. Be sure to read the Garen Galeis papers. Also https://www.stereophile.com/content/what-difference-wire-makes from 1995.

Nor any sonic differences that can be readily identified blind.
It depends on the system. Some systems will confound the most skilled listeners. Some systems are relatively immune to cable effects. Other combinations are like flipping a switch.
@b4icu
Which systems do sound different and which don’t?
All systems sound different. Room, component tolerances and age, humidity, temperature, pressure, YOU all conspire to alter the sound.

Why is that?
Do the math.

What parameter of the system make the difference?
Everything.
"Some of my work involved tuning the power supply. It may come as a surprise to learn that you can change tonality without even touching the signal path, because the signal originates from the power supply. The impedance curve of the N11’s power supply is absolutely homogenous from DC to 200kHz, which creates a very balanced sound. I also tuned the resistors for the voltage gain, using a mix of carbon and metal resistors to create a neutral balance. There are a lot of preamps that claim to be ’neutral’ or ’in balance,’ but there are different shades of ’neutral.’ If you have a tube preamp, for example, ’neutral’ is at a different level than solid-state; it’s not better or worse, but it is different. It took a lot of work to find the tonal balance I like a lot that measures well, with low noise, and fits very well in the Noble Line." [emphasis added] from https://www.stereophile.com/content/mbl-noble-line-n11-line-preamplifier

The truth is that you don’t know.
I don’t think you read what I or Mr Galeis wrote. If you did, it’s beyond your ken.

I DO.
Methinks not.
I’m not thumbing my nose at anyone. I’m a retired recording, electronic and software engineer.

The first thing an engineer does is get the requirements. I flew all over the world to have a look-see before making recommendations.

So when JoHiFi recommends his XYZ, without knowing anything about a room, the other components and user peccadillos, it just useless 0’s and 1’s.

Case in point: "The Naim series like the nd5xs2 is great at about 3500 ( I own one of these), and the Araulic Vega series, g1 is about 3500 I believe and I Just purchased their g2.1 which runs 6900.00. Both those are very easy to use also, which is important to me." So said speedbump6 in https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/can-anyone-recommend-a-good-streamer-dac

To be fair, originators of "Can anyone recommend..." deserve the nonsense they receive. Most of these topics contain "I can spend..." and ZERO about music!!!!
From your words it seems there’s a bit of envy over people being able to spend.
ROTFLMFAO! 35 years ago I had $25k+ expended. Today, I could spend $$$$, but since $$$$ has ZERO correlation to musicality, why would I? Do I get a pass for having ≈$5k in speaker cables for my Tri-Amped system?

The more “ opinions” we get, and ones that seem to confirm each other, the more reliable we can expect the results in our homes to be.
You miss the point. Most recommendations are by fan-boy owners. Judging by what I hear in high shops of products recommended here, most systems are terrible at the parameters I value. Conversely, my recommendations would fall on deaf ears. Literally!

It is impossible for anyone to advise on performance of a component vis a vis another in a system other than their own.

Last year, I auditioned some $6k & $12k balanced interconnect cables in a fine dealer system. All Mac electronics, B&W 80?, dual REL subs. A very good system, one I could easily enjoy. Swapping in the $12k between the pre & power amps destroyed the sound field. It sounded like I'd put two graphic equalizers in series, alternated boost & cut and then reversed on the 2nd. Time coherence was destroyed! UNLISTENABLE!!

You might ask, "How did I know which was correct?"

I recorded and mixed the music, receiving a Grammy nomination for my trouble.
What do you calculate for L & C?
How do you derive the LS impedance?
Care to share any Bode plots?
Rubbish

"In an audio system, the damping factor gives the ratio of the rated impedance of the loudspeaker to the source impedance. Only the resistive part of the loudspeaker impedance is used. The amplifier output impedance is also assumed to be totally resistive." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_factor

Neither the amplifier nor the speaker have constant A/C impedance
For the sake of this endless argument, what is your explanation to the difference in sound with different speaker cables?
Do you have one?
http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/CableSnakeOil.php

From what I’d learn, most do
Far more eat at McDonald’s than Maxims.

The "Burn In" comment is sarcasm. I’ve changed it for dim witted:

"The poor schlub gets the item home, connects it to vastly different gear and rightly determines the sonics are worse. Hence, he’s advised 100’s hours are required to burn in. Poppycock! All that happens is the victim gets used to the change and convinces himself it got better. Meanwhile, the temperature, pressure, humidity, line voltage and CBLF frailties have changed. Burn In is BUNK! "