why do peple think ipods are just for bkgrd music

It is not the notion that ipods themselves are only useful for background music - it's the compressed files that they use that compromise the sound. alas, the player itself is adequate for the high end community, it's compressed software that sucks.

Yep, the software is the problem. I've heard ipod music in my system and I thought it sounded rather poor.

Arthur

I recently posted about a little 'experiment' where I put an ipod into my main system. YUCK!!!, and I had to remove my tuner to accomodate it! Even though the tuner is by far my least used component I still couldn't get it back into my system fast enough! I've heard of the Wadia, if it's the real deal it will be recieved like the 1st CD players were, with overwhelming acceptance, we'll see.

the ipod itself as is using its dacs is not that good in a hifi system. Iam talking about using a ipod transport bypassing the ipods dac and using an external dac processor,Like the wadia 170 or the msb ilink. Transfer your cd collection via apple lossless and then tranfer to your ipod. Use the wadia or msb as your i pod transport.

I have a zune loaded with lossless files playing through audioengine 5's as a second system in a cabin. The sound is very good given what it is and what my goals were when building the system. It is nothing compared to my reference but given the dollar comparison it is pretty darned good. My wife and daughter love it; convenience, small footprint and great sound to their ears. I think it is a matter of what your goals are and what you are used too listening to as a reference.

I believe this medium is the future of audio or large part of it. I do not believe there are many young people in our footsteps who really appreciate or are looking to great audio as a goal. I have also begun questioning my own involvement at least to the level I have invested in it. I have been in this hobby for most of my life and have enjoyed it. I have two children who have been exposed to it but neither one considers audio perfection or the pursuit thereof important. However, they do love the zune; so goes the future of high end audio at least in my house.

Sorry for rambling and not sure I answered or contributed to the thread but just felt I had to say my two cents.

I agree with you Czbbcl all iam saying is that medium is the future and its how we can get the most of it.

It (the MSB) is a true transport that deals with the jitter just like the cd transport. Now you have ipod docks like the wadia 170 all it does is bypass the ipods dac. I would use the wadia 170 dock as background music. Iam not knocking the wadia but its not a ipod transport.

Again, I addressed this in another forum, the Wadia iTransport bypasses the DAC and you can purchase DAC's that handle jitter. So your knock on the Wadia it totally unfounded.

I don't know anything about the MSB, does it bypass the internal DAC of the iPod?

brianmgrarcom iam not knocking the wadia 170 itransport just the opposite. I think that this is the furture and the cd transport will be the past. Yes the msb bypasses the ipod dac but it all so address the jitter. Just like the cd transport their are transports that are better than others. I have not yet listen to the wadia 170 yet, i have one on order at musicdirect when its out. Yes i think some dac address jitter and some do it better.

Usaarmy91, sorry if I am putting words in your mouth, but you do make comments that come across negative to me.

I would use the wadia 170 dock as background music. I am not knocking the wadia but its not a ipod transport.

Also:

Yes the msb bypasses the ipod dac but it all so address the jitter.

This is interesting to me because the iTransport is marketed, I believe, as the only licensed product from Apple to bypass their DAC. While the iTransport does not address jitter, if your DAC does, it is basically a non-issue, from what I understand. There is a clocking(?) signal sent via the cable from whatever transport you use, to the DAC, so it can be done at either place.

I believe dCS has a 3 piece CD system, a transport, clocking (jitter) unit and then the DAC.

then this is some of the best [background] music I've ever heard, besting my previous CDP*.

System:

Wadia iTransport/iPod
Shindo Aurieges-L
Reimyo DAP-777 mkII
TRON Cantata 300B SET Mono's
Horning Agathon Ultimate Speakers

*Accustic Arts CDP-1

I only import CD's with Apple Lossless (MAC/iTunes). Only an audiofool would think compressed [MP3] music files could sound good, let alone the analog output from an iPod into their system.

I also tried the Squeezebox and would rate it as good as the iTransport sound (except for the constant wireless dropout issues I encountered with it). Personally, I prefer this approach because it's remote and the music comes from my MAC/iTunes (no copying over to iPod, picking choosing,..etc).

Note: I also tried a number USB DAC's since selling my CDP (the solution I had initially decided upon). These ranged from under $1000 and on up to $3500 tube DAC's. I wasn't satisfied (Benchmark DAC-1 being the worse). That was a disappointing experience. I also tried a USB/SPDIF Converter, just so that I could say I did. Aaagh! It was horrible.

What's nice about the iPod is that it has less HW/SW then a computer. It's also battery powered, although not when used with a dock such as the iTransport. It's not perfect high-end, but it does a very good job for what it is and the price. My favorite music server though would still be the Sooloos, but it's way over priced - for a computer. If only the MAC had a digital output [SPDIF] and iTunes offered high-resolution downloads.

I do have a few complaints with the iTransport though; the main one being the cheap fit/finish/materials, even for China standards and a price tag of $379. (To compare, look at the iPod, how well that is made and it's finish/materials). I don't like the rough paint finish. The remote is extremely directional too. I can be pointing it right at the unit, a foot away, and it won't respond. Don't care for the feet either.

Anyways, the music is more then satisfying in my system. There is no "one" solution unfortunately, but given what can be done with something like a MAC/iTunes/SB3 or iTransport/iPod combo it sure opens the door to a convenient music listening experience saving on the expense of high-priced CDP's and CDT's limited to playing one CD at a time. I've imported about 450 CD's (341 Artists, 5438 songs), and all that fit on my iPod Classic 160GB. It offers features such as "Cover Flow" and many others for playback. I haven't enjoyed playing music this much before. Hearing songs in a different order amongst different artists changes your listening perception too, opens your ears as it were. You fall in love with your music all over again and yearn to discover more. So stop whining about "jitter", or "HD's", or "backup",... and start listening. Yes, computers aren't the best thing, but neither is a CDP.

I think CDPs and CDTs will be replaced by computers. Some of those computers may be very small with small capacity hard drives (like Ipods) some of those computers will be larger and have larger hard drives (PCs and Macs).

One thing is certain though, CDPs or CDTs are not going to be replaced by any computer (large or small) that is playing MP3s or any other lossy format.

Another thing that is certain is that high quality CDPs or CDTs or computers connected to external digital processing devices are not going to be replaced by any computer large or small (even an Ipod) that puts out a crappy analogue signal.

In their present form Ipods are little computers that put out bad analogue audio signals and deliver poor sound quality. They are not going to replace any single piece of equipment (or any combination of equipment) that puts out truly high quality analogue audio signals and delivers very high sound quality.

In their present form Ipods are little computers that put out bad analogue audio signals and deliver poor sound quality. They are not going to replace any single piece of equipment (or any combination of equipment) that puts out truly high quality analogue audio signals and delivers very high sound quality.

On the contrary, the iPod is cable of exceptional performance and one is not limited to storing low quality compressed files, you can store bit-for-bit copies of your CD's in WAV or AIFF format, I also believe Apple Lossless is near impossible to detect a difference in.

What is being discussed with the iTransport is bypassing the DAC of the iPod and using the iPod as a music server.

There is a nice little write up in the current issue of Playback Magazine

We have two iPods and two other MP3 players in our family. And just prior to making my first post to this thread I spent two hours listening to an iPod shuffle connected to my car's audio system. I like iPods.

But iPods in and of themselves are not the emergent technology that will replace CDPs and CDTS. A combination of mass storage of PCM and high quality upstream processing of PCM is the emergent technology that will probably replace CDs and the equipment that plays CDs. And because it lacks digital output, the iPod (by itself)cannot serve any function in this emergent technology, not even the role of mass storage.

It is true that with the right software (which the Wadia 170 uses) or the right internal hardware modifications (as in the MSB's Digital iLink) the iPod can deliver digital output to up stream digital processors. But this does not make it unique. Virtually any PC or Mac can do the same. And anyway, it is the Wadia and MSB equipment that is really different and innovative, not the iPod.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is mistaken to try to make the iPod the star of the show. The technology of mass storage and high quality processing of PCM is the star of the show. And presently the iPod by itself is not even part of the show.

JPO