Why do all Mahler recordings seem too bright?

@antigrunge2 thanks for the smile!

@kr4 thanks for the recommendations!  I just listened to the Vanska/Minnesota and it’s much better!  I should have tried that one without prompting because I’m often surprised at how much I enjoy both their playing and recordings.   

@jasonbourne52 I never listen at enough volume to approach clipping.  In this system, it’s a relatively small listening area

Hi Mapman,

I don’t feel the KEF Reference 3s are small - particularly for my modest listening space.  And, I don’t listen at live symphony levels - even though they’re only about 10 feet away. Plus, they sound lovely on most other things. So, I don’t think it’s the speakers.  It’s true the 100 watts I have could potentially be limiting, but even at peaks, I’m not seeing more than 20 watts and the quality of the amp overall is high. (I do wish I still had the T+A PA 3000HV - it was stellar, but ultimately, too big to properly place in my cabinet.)

My digital front end is quite good - while it can be bettered, I’ve put a good amount of attention and $$$ at it and my network. I’ve auditioned a LOT of similarly and more expensive gear and this is where I’ve ended up.

I suspect what I’m experiencing is threefold : 1) Many Mahler recordings actually are too bright. Thanks to @kr4 - for recommending some that are better. 2) my speaker cables are on the bright and revealing side (they’re new and sound wonderful on most things but they are brighter than what they replaced, and 3) I need to tame some resonances coming through my cabinet and into the components creating some euphoric induced distortion. 

Searching for good music is fun so I am tackling 1 here.  I think I’ll address 3 with a visit to the dealer to try some Nordost sort cones and the like.

Happy Thanksgiving all!

Thanks @mapman mapman.  Fyi: The Reference 3s are entirely different in size and configuration than the R3s, the latter which are standmount and the former of which are floor standing speakers (about the same size as the largest in the R series. KEF’s naming conventions don’t seem to carry over in their lines. 

I also have LS50s (not the Meta) in another system w/ a REL S3 sub - they’re remarkably good. But, yeah - they couldn’t manage Mahler above modest volumes.  The Reference 3s - can play at volumes much greater than I care to listen - and do so without strain.

Interestingly, back in the 80s, I bought a pair of Ohm Fs - speakers I thoroughly enjoyed but could never properly drive.  At the time, I had a 100 watt (remember Hafler?)  which was laughably too little for the famously inefficient Fs. But, boy did they sound nice at moderate volumes when the amp wasn’t panting.!

Best,

@lowrider57 thanks.

I think you’re right about needing to tame the vibration coming in to my gear. That seems to me to be the most obvious - it’s harsh on the top end when the dynamics are loud. I’m pretty sure it’s not my amp clipping though it sounds like it.  As I don’t have any control for that in place, I’ll start there. My local dealer should be delighted to sell me more gear.

I also stand by my other comment that many recordings are brighter than they ought to be.  Treble energy dissipates in the concert hall. However,  the way orchestras are recorded - with a mic at most stands - does not recreate the balance heard mid hall. The mics are capturing what the musician might have heard, but not the audience.  

Like some others here, I have many wonderful performances of great music performed by stellar ensembles but recorded under the DG label.  The sonics are beyond disappointing.  Fortunately, Qobuz has brought to my chair a fabulous array of alternatives - and I needed help from this group here to sort through them to find some that are better balanced.  

 Best,

@lowrider57 

I don’t have any room treatments - But again, I don’t experience brightness or harshness as problematic on most recorded music.  

You may be right that my amp is clipping when I have it turned up a bit so I’ll reconsider that. (Interestingly, I can listen to Beethoven (my favorite) symphonies and piano concertos at full volume without this effect(. But, Mahler does like massed everything and you could well be right that the organ tones underneath the high brass, with added triangle and crash symbols may be too much.  Too much for my amp, too much for my ears. 

I’m still going to explore the micro phonics potentially affecting my gear as that seems logical to me the more I think about it.

Kind regards to all - and thanks for the thoughtful replies.  

Thanks to all for the thoughtful discussion.  I’ve been enjoying the MN/Vanska reading of the 2nd and will look for more of this pairing.  

With regard to the brightness issue: I do have an update. 

One of my suspicions was that my system was suffering from microphonic distortion on the peaks.  The other was that my amp was clipping.  I appears to be the former. I borrowed some Nordost Sort Kones to audition and the harshness during peaks is essentially gone.  I’ll be auditioning other solutions to see if this can be further improved.  I now recognize the significant importance of resonance control.  My audio cabinet is really furniture (we’d rather look at a nice cabinet than at audio gear).  I should have been paying more attention here.  

The uniquely large dynamic swings of Mahler brought this to the fore.  

Best to all,