Who says cables don't make a difference?

pfhjvb08 posts

... the imperative is for those claiming that they can hear a difference (based on cabling) to actually be able to prove there is a difference ...

Nonsense. There is no such "imperative" and your demands ring hollow.

This is a hobbyist’s group, not a scientific forum. Users here are free to post their experiences free of demands and innuendo from others. You’re free to conduct your owns tests, of course, as others here have done. Feel free to report your results.

speedbump

cleeds, Robert doesn’t even realize when he’s been out scienced on his blind testing theories, he never will ...

@speedbump6, I’m not sure you’re right. I think Robert is a pretty smart guy.

He’s a sophist who’s sometimes here to argue for argument’s sake, but I think he also recognizes that some of his rigid assertions just aren’t supportable. His content would be a lot more useful if he’d acknowledge that a little more clearly.

roberttdid

You are being needlessly pedantic yet illustrating you have not actually done double blind testing and don’t understand design of experiments ... And again, you are wrong ... Wow, it’s like you really don’t understand design of experiments at all ... Testing a large group of people would be meaningless, as it would only provide a statistical answer ...

@Roberttdid, I’d respond to your remarks, but it would be hopeless, because you could trot out another gem such as this:
roberttdid

Let me type this slowly so that it is totally clear. I have run many blind tests ...

Yes, clearly, "testing a large group of people would be meaningless." Worthless. Inconsequential. Of no value. Waste of time. Useless. Proves nothing. Bogus. Yields no data.

Please let us know if you actually plan to conduct such testing, rather than just insisting that others here do your work for them.

roberttdid

You just raised pedantic to a whole new level.

If you think the presentation of facts is pedantry, then you’re confused. Here’s an example of pedantry:
roberttdid

Let me type this slowly so that it is totally clear. I have run many blind tests ...

Do you see the difference?

It’s hard to put bias into a test process that involves nothing more than swapping cables ...

Actually, it’s very easy to introduce bias into a test itself. There are mountains of information on this and I’m surprised that you don’t understand that. (I suspect that you do understand the nature of biased testing, and that you just prefer to not have to address it.)

Remember what is being tested. What is being tested is that the person making the claim of (usually) a readily apparent audible difference is able to actually perceive in a blind situation the difference.

Again, you are confused. A proper double-blind listening test does not test the listener, it tests the device under test (DUT). You cannot scientifically test for two things at the same time.

If you want to test a listener, engage an audiologist. That’s what they do.

If you want to make your blind cable test even more meaningful, you’ll want subjects that think cables make a difference as well as those who don’t think cables make a difference. And if you’re really ambitious, you’ll also include some listeners who don’t care - or have no opinion - one way or the other. The last blind test that I participated in years ago did just that, and it made the results even more interesting.

@roberttdid if you are really serious about conducting some blind tests, please provide us with some details about your plan.

roberttdid

Let me type this slowly so that it is totally clear. I have run many blind tests with other people as the listeners. If I have a bias it is meaningless as I was not the test subject.

You’ve just invalided every blind test that you have ever conducted. That’s because a properly designed and conducted blind test must also account for and negate the bias of the test designer and proctors.

For example, you’ve made it clear that you don’t think the differences between competent cables is audible. You’ve poisoned the well by conveying that to a test subject; you’ve given him a reason ("power of suggestion") to find no difference.

And this is emblematic of many who clamor for others to conduct blind tests. Not all blind tests are valid, and conducting a valid test is much more work than it might appear to the casual observer, both for the conductors of the test as well as for the subjects.

C'mon, guys. Can't we stop with the nonsense and talk about audio and music???

roberttdid

Now if only someone had some independent double blind tests that compared competent and expensive cables ...hmm... 10’s of manufacturers, not one public test to promote their wares. Weird huh dude?

Actually that’s not weird at all. I suspect you do understand that but in the event you don’t, I’ll break it down for you.

You call for "independent double blind tests" of cables, then bemoan that the manufacturers haven’t conducted such tests in public. But by definition, a test conducted by the manufacturer wouldn’t be independent. For the test to be independent, someone else would have to conduct the test.

Why do you think more truly independent tests haven’t been conducted? I think there are many reasons, including the apparent fact that outside of a noisy minority, most listeners don’t think such tests have much value. Let’s face it: Blind tests are a tedious and time consuming enterprise both for those conducting the test and for the test subjects.

So, @roberttdid, given your passion and faith in blind testing, I have to ask: Why don’t you organize such a test? The pandemic won’t last forever - maybe you could stage such a test at the next Axpona show.