Where should the vocal image be?

ozzy62, Please point out where I "alluded". Or is this "allusion" an illusion of your delusion?

ozzy62-

 miller carbon, Comments about toe in are off base. There is no “one size fits all” recommendation regarding soundstage depth and toe in. 

ozzy62, Your digs are off base. Never said "one size fits all" and as for the other stuff my comments are directed at image depth. Because that is the subject.

Odd you go so far astray from the topic for no reason other than to bash me. Probably you do the same to others, not reading them fairly either. Who knows? I don't usually pay attention to you enough to say for sure. 

Oh wait, what's this?

soundstage depth may be enhanced by severe toe in,

So my comments are off base, but when you say the same that's just fine? Right. Got it. Thanks!

It’s could be quite subjective as I would prefer the vocal to be at least mid way between the listener and the speaker plane. I understand this would trade off soundstage depth. This leads to another related topic as would you prefer that "they are there" or "you are there."

What you "prefer" then, if you think about it, is a system that imposes your expectations on the music. Every time you impose your desires on a recording you necessarily detract from its fidelity. Think about it.

If you want a good reference for what your system should be doing, try the XLO Test CD, specifically the walk-around tracks. This was recorded in a bare room with two microphones and consists of nothing but Roger Skoff talking and walking around the room hitting a clavis (wood block) while telling you where he is in relation to the microphones.

If your system is dialed in it will be eerily apparent the room is exactly the size it is. The size of your room won’t even matter. Not if your system is good enough. When he says, "I am standing in the middle of the room" so many feet from the microphone you will hear his voice emanating from precisely that location. Then as he walks closer and closer guess what? Like he is right in front of you. He even goes past the microphones to stand behind them. This is the acid test. It is bizarre to hear as it does indeed sound as if he is behind you. In my system anyway.

This is what I’m talking about. Anyone says where something should be, more often than not has no idea. Only using a test CD specifically recorded this way can you have any hope of knowing where things are supposed to image with any specificity. All else is guesswork.

 

but what piece of equipment and it could include speakers, is responsible for the imaging / soundstage

I would venture to say it would be the speakers. Then followed by the recordings.

Okay so a lot going on here. First you need two speakers. Not one. Not three. Two. Then they must be equidistant and symmetrical, or no imaging. Then if you want image focus and depth they need to be toed in quite a bit. The more toe in the deeper the stage.

Okay now you have set the stage, so to speak, for the rest. Even the very best speakers can only put out what they get in, so all your other components need to be capable of depth of stage.

Now assuming you got all that in place then it all depends on the recording. Last night I put on Sting The Dream of the Blue Turtles because my wife likes Sting. Only she didn’t like this one, not at all. Come to find it is because his voice is so far back. Plus this one sounds like he is in some kind of cavern or something. She couldn’t stand it. So I put on Ten Summoners Tales which is Sting and recorded very similar but not quite so far back. Like Turtles he is 7 ft back, Tales only 4-5 feet. Still she was complaining asking why he isn’t right in front of us like Mark Knopfler Brothers in Arms.

So there is a huge range, that once your system is up to snuff is entirely, completely, and all the way 100% determined by the recording.

But the system has to be there. A lot of them will present everything in your face, or way way back, or flat, or anywhere in between. The better the system the more it depends on the source material.