When Will the DAC Singularity Be Reached?

We can have different specific sound "colors" related to any components..

Dac-amplifiers-speakers-headphone...

We can achieve a good system without basic neutrality... By synergetical matching...

I did it with my last systems /room ... Which system  was not "neutral" more on the "warm" side...

French Nos dac TDA 1543 +Sansui AU 7700=Mission Cyrus speakers 781

 

 

Now i turned by fateful event to headphone...

The AKG K340 modified is very neutral and able to reach deep bass and refined high frequencies being an hybrid..

My Sansui AU alpha 607i do not sound as a tube amplifier like My Sansui AU 7700 but more as a refined S.S. amplifier , lower noise floor very , very clean...

Then i changed my dac french NOS tda1543, a very organic sound for a Hidizs dac , a more clean and less noisy and more refined sound in the "colder" side but not digital at all...

Results are astonishing...

You cannot replace the speakers qualities or the headphone qualities by upgrading the source dac... You must in the opposite match the source choice with the speakers or headphone...

This is why for me the speakers and headphones are the most important component ( i dont count the acoustic room here)

Then at the end i think that dac technology is mature... Because i cannot fault the  basic chinese dac  i own now with my very sensitive AKG k340 ...

There is better dac for sure... But better here is not better in the absolute sense of the word , it is better for some synergetical matching not for some others...

Dont buy costly dac, buy first  better speakers, buy a better room , buy better headphone ... Or at least buy better amplifier...

It is my advice...

I can be wrong... Others had more experience than me with dac... But i am pretty sure to be right...

If not why in the world my actual system could be so great that upgrading seems preposterous to me ?

I am not deaf by the way, nobody half deaf can do that, I tuned my room by ears myself...😊

If i am not deaf , if i am so pleased with my dac which is basic , that means that amplifier and headphone and speakers upgrade and synergy  matter more than dac upgrade...

my post is there not to negate difference in dac sound qualities, but to claim that it matter way more to create synergy between components... A dac dont sound the same in different system...

And the best dac in the world will not be so great with bad headphone or bad speakers or not so good amplification or simply in a not so good synergetical match for it ...

At the end, no component had a sound of their own; they sound as good  the worst part of the system ...

 

 

Exactly right ...Thanks to say it clearly..

What I don't understand is why some are so attached to this idea that to get the basic function right, it must take a lot of money?  Filters, tube output stages, and I am sure many more ways exist to create a differentiated sound. Attractive cases, nice displays, added functionality. So many ways to differentiate your product. Why the need to insist getting the basics right is expensive?

I lived through the same experience and reach the same conclusion...

 

I’m sure that better DACs exist with more modern chips, clocks, etc. but basically, they need to sound musically involving and have great resolution, not leaving anything musically important out. I’ve achieved that on the cheap and I tried $9K DACs also superbly constructed/art works but lacking in musicality (electronics design failed due to a noise laden conversion algorithm).

I believe this is true :

I believe that DAC singularity point has been reached already.

I believe this not because i had much experience with high end dac or dac in general...

i believe it because i listen classical music and non amplified music and the timbre experience, the holographic 3_d soundfield i experience now with a low cost dac prove to me that Dac technology is mature... i dont partake ASR opinions about Dac... but they are not completely wrong either about dac... Amplifier is another matter...

i tuned my room then i learned what are the main acoustic concepts and factors and i am able to sense them if they are lacking...

For sure a low cost dac so good it can be will not rival a high end one ... upgrade is always there as possibility... But the basic situation with dac is not the same as 20 years ago at all...

Then there is a difference bettween dacs levels but what matter now is more the amplification stage or speakers or headphone qualities...My headphone now is a TOP one... I hear every recordings difference with details... My K340 goes under 30 hertz.. It gives me more than most speakers... Anyway in classical recording it sound as speakers filling a room and the soundfield is OUT OF MY HEAD , it depend of the recording process, but is not on a plane curved in my head ... Then if my low cost dac was bad in timbre presentation and in localization or in dynamic or transients , i will hear it... it is not...it does not sound artificial... Analytic yes but with no fatiguing digital glare as i experienced in the past ...My dac is so good , it does not exist for my ears...I did not even imagine to invest in a "better" dac...there is better dac but there is also a S.Q. /price ratio scale...

is it possible to upgrade it ? Yes but the diminushing return treshold for dac is there rather soon than late in a way no other components compared...

For sure on a 50,000 bucks system well done in a dedicated acoustic room my low cost dac will present more limitations than a 5,000 bucks dac... But not so much as to be called "trash"....Sorry it is not trash...I paid it 200 bucks...

 

 

Anyway for me conventional dac are now overpassed and made obsolete in a way, by "virtual room" technology created by Dr, Choueri BACCH filters... A genius physicist who work as hobby in acoustic design .. Here we reach with his dac without any degradation of timbre ( the reason for that is in the acoustical physics behind his patented filters) experience perfect localization in a room , for any speakers or any headphone... Why did i would buy a 5,000 conventional dac without the BACCH patented filters ? A better color on my timbre ? I dont need that even now...

Conventional dac are obsolete... People dont know it yet...😊

 

 

I concur with what it is said here :

 

 

I used to be on the equipment ferris wheel, going around and around and around. Maybe equipment roulette is more fitting? This DAC, that DAC, this cartridge, that cartridge, amps, etc. Never quite happy. Once I learned all the nuances of speakers in a room, got appropriate speakers, subs, and fixed my room, then I finally got off the equipment merry go round. All those changes I thought I was making, that never seemed to quite do it, were not doing anything. I have easily spend over $20K on DACs over the last decade. Now every DAC in my main system sounds good.

Maybe I am the man out in this discussion, but I would rather be happy and confident in my system than yearn for yet another lateral change. One spot I do agree with @melm is that good headphones are more revealing than speakers.

Because of my journey, like the op, I question the value of expensive DACs. They may be different but different is not better, it is different. Maybe that works for you, maybe it does not. It is working for some people here, but I wonder what are they putting a bandaid over.