Thanks, Ralph.
What will a preamp do for me?
Missing in the chain below is a preamp - I use the DAC to control volume. This is my only source and will be for some time. What could I gain by adding a preamp?
I have Thiel CS 2.3s driven by a BAT VK-55, sourced by PS Audio PW DAC, with bridge II, mostly tidal. The DAC serves as a preamp in terms of volume control. Mostly Audioquest cables, amp power cord is Cardas Clear m, all fed by PS Audio upc-200.
I am am hoping to improve the highs, which sometimes sound smeared, too much sibilance; would like more air and clarity. Loud rock sounds flatter, less dynamic than I’d like. I am not willing to give up the deep detailed and beautifully resonant mids. Willing to spend up to $3000, used is ok. Totally balanced is a must. Not currently willing to entertain the idea of different speakers - my goal is to make the 2.3s sound as good as reasonably possible before moving on to other speakers. It’s easy to find a really good preamp in this price range, so much so I am almost paralyzed by the choices. Aesthetix , Ayre, ARC, several BAT, Parasound and more all have apparently excellent models in my price range. Patience would put Atma-sphere and PS Audio within reach. Which is best for my situation? There’s no way to audition all of these, how could I avoid getting on a preamp merry-go-round? Or should I spend my money elsewhere?
I have Thiel CS 2.3s driven by a BAT VK-55, sourced by PS Audio PW DAC, with bridge II, mostly tidal. The DAC serves as a preamp in terms of volume control. Mostly Audioquest cables, amp power cord is Cardas Clear m, all fed by PS Audio upc-200.
I am am hoping to improve the highs, which sometimes sound smeared, too much sibilance; would like more air and clarity. Loud rock sounds flatter, less dynamic than I’d like. I am not willing to give up the deep detailed and beautifully resonant mids. Willing to spend up to $3000, used is ok. Totally balanced is a must. Not currently willing to entertain the idea of different speakers - my goal is to make the 2.3s sound as good as reasonably possible before moving on to other speakers. It’s easy to find a really good preamp in this price range, so much so I am almost paralyzed by the choices. Aesthetix , Ayre, ARC, several BAT, Parasound and more all have apparently excellent models in my price range. Patience would put Atma-sphere and PS Audio within reach. Which is best for my situation? There’s no way to audition all of these, how could I avoid getting on a preamp merry-go-round? Or should I spend my money elsewhere?
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I have been told for over 2 decades that the shortest path is the best. So I have been going direct from my MSB Platinum DAC III with passive volume control into my amp. I recently added a Backert Labs Rhumba 3 Extreme to my system. The difference the Rhumba has made was dramatic. It was like the curtains got pull back and I was hearing the music for the first time. Everything just sounded clearer; especially with low level details. Sound stage improved along with over all musical texture. Every note was conveyed with a sense of presence, especially with female vocals and string instruments. And the decay just goes on forever. The Rhumba 3 Extreme has been the single best addition to my system in over 12 years. |
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I have yet to get to the preamp auditions - I took elizabeth's advice and upgraded power cord for amp (Cardas Clear M), plugged it directly into the wall socket rather than the conditioner, and replaced the wall socket with a Furutech GTX-D(R) so far. All modest but noticable improvements. During the same time period, I added some isolation devices for the amp and source, and that is as far as I have gotten. Isolating the amp with wood platform and Iso's cones and feet made the biggest difference by far. In fact, now I am considering Gaias and Oreas too. Next big upgrade will be upgrading the source to PSA's DSD DAC. THEN I will move on to preamps, unless something else strikes my fancy in the meantime. |
And almost forgot, I have been trying some NOS 6SN7s, old Russian tubes from Upscale, in place of the Sylvania Chrome Domes that came with the amp, which has been interesting so far, probably worthy of another thread. Bottom line - no big difference yet, but maybe still burning these old Russians in. |
elizabeth - the Goldpoint is a very interesting idea, one worth trying, had one in the cart before remembering that these cost about the same as the Schiit Freya. Unless there's some obvious technical advantage in the volume control (neither use potentiometers, both use resistors) wouldn't it still make more sense to try the Freya? I guess the selling point for the Goldpoint is no distortion, vs ability to influence SQ with the Freya? |
I know you said your budget was $3k, but for $4k you should seriously look at https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/model=str-pre-amplifier/page=overview Good chance the DAC in this will handily outperform your PS - which you could certainly compare. The biggest benefit of the room correction. When you realize and resolve what the room is actually doing/contributing to your system, then |
thosb thosb Looking at all your specs: By going direct from PS Audio to Bat 55 and using the Bat’s volume control, specs below shows you have a perfect match with it and the most transparent and dynamic way you will hear your system. If your getting "smearing of the highs" putting an expensive preamp in the chain will not fix the problem, all it can do is color it more, the problem lays elsewhere. Specs In the Stereophile review below of your PS dac they said below. This maybe colored by getting the very fine Shiit $149 http://www.schiit.com/products/loki an equalizer that a few here love for what it can do for a problem system, and you can send it back, if it don’t work. " My first impression was that the PS Audio was rounding off the attack components of notes to the detriment of their sonic physicality, seemed a bit rounded off and lacking the immediacy of, say, Bricasti’s fine M1 DAC" New firmware seemed to fix some of this, but the way they described it wasn’t convincing, to me at least.. Listening with new firmware Cheers George |
Thanks George! So far my conclusion re preamps is they can shape the sound (along with source and volume control), sometimes to great affect, but no guarantees that one will provide the specific improvements I am looking for. I was pretty sure impedance matching in my system was not a problem due to the BAT’s 215kohm input but glad you confirmed this. Firmware is up to date on the dac. So I think I need to experiment more with room treatments, especially the sidewalls, before tone control/dsd etc, my thinking is the smear and unwanted sibalance could be those high frequencies bouncing around the room much more than ideal. Sounds like the start of a new thread! |
thosb OP Also try a different source, as I’m not convinced about the firmware fixing what the Stereophile reviewer heard because they didn’t do back-flips over it, which is kinda what your hearing too. As what they heard could be interpreted as "smearing" also. Cheers George |
The way the volume is dealt with in the PSA PW Dac is pretty good. Upsampling, applying volume, then downsampling to somewhere around 2x DSD (if I remember right). Basically, beyond what you can hear. It really takes a very special preamp to improve upon it. I've tried some of the lesser Audio Research and it wasn't until I borrowed a Ref5SE I heard any improvement and it's still fairly small step forward. |
While this thread seems to have run its course, I’ll nonetheless ask for some guidance. I totally get the active vs passive discussion, having had placette and reference line one way back in the day and several actives since. i now have the lumin x1 and it’s Much better w an active pre. I’m interested in the Townshend Allegri ref, but gotta wonder how that could improve on going direct using the dac’s volume control. But I’ll guess that the external pre might improve because it has a better analog volume control than the digital, and better opportunity for impedance matching - however I’m likely wrong on the impedance bit when it comes to passives. Thx for any insights to the quandary |