What to expect in a TT upgrade?

Hello, What Cartridge were you using originally? You fail to mention this? This may have been the culprit, as well as incorrect set-up?

Going with a better, more sophisticated Turntable won't necessarily mean easier set-up, but usually better Arms have better features, and that's probably what you pay for in part when you buy better Arms. Things like VTA on the Fly.

Stillthough, with any Pivotal Tonearm, the same pricipals apply regardless, and they are proper Cartridge Alignment, (Overhang, Zenith, Azimuth)

Then VTA, and VTF. If you don't have good tools to aid you, I'd suggest getting them. These tools (protractor, VTF Scale, Test Record) are never a use one-time deal, and then put them away forever. They always are needed to have around.

This table, while I don't know a heck of a lot about it, was said to be a very decent table.

Your money might be most wisely spent on a great Cartridge first, that will be compatible with your new Phono Stage, and work well with your Arm. The Shelter 501 might be fine, and an improvement from where you are at right now, but you might gain even further performance going above this?

The good Cartridge won't be a waste of money, provided it will be compatible to the Tonearm's Mass-Compliance, and be a good match with your Pre-Amp. If you should then decide to upgrade Table-Arm, the Cartridge will be on hand to be retro-fitted. Mark

Hello Larry, Yes, I can picture your set-up, this is a very attractive Table. Many followers of the Denon 103R as well, as being a great value.

I understand your analogy, and I'm sure basically every other forumite does as well. I would say a large percentage "came up through the ranks" so to speak, and didn't "wake up" into Analog with a cold start, and then with the very first Turntable they bought, went out and sprung $10K-$30 for it.

But there are quite a few Forumites here who have multiple tens of thousands of dollars invested, and basically have no regrets.

Some people spend $40K for a Bass Boat to use twice a year, buy a vintage Vehicle-Show Car that might have 500 mi. per year placed on the Odometer.

And then us music lovers I reckon, who work hard for thier money, and go through hell at times to make it, want to come home, sit back, and get thier socks blown off, by a system that has the least amount of compromise. This of course is where the big bucks can come in.

Of course as you, and others know Larry, a Turntable, or an Amp, of whatever, that let's say cost $10,000 doesn't sound ten times better than a $1,000 one.

I guess many here "have had the rest, and now want the best". Or at least the best they can afford.

Sometimes with certain hobbies, one goes without, and deprives themselves of other things, to fund these "idiosyncranic" hobbies.

I have many friends into the Amateur Astronomy Hobby, with large Triplet Apochromatic Refractor Telescopes that cost what a "good" Automobile cost, state of the art Mounting Systems with GOTO Operation at the push of a button, Elaborate Personal Observatories, CCD Camera Equipment that cost multiple $1,000's. One fella I know spent $45K for a CCD Camera to go on the back of his own 24" RC Cassegrain Reflector Telescope housed in his own personal Observatory up in Cloudcroft, NM.

As I close Larry, I reckon it's what floats your boat! ;-) Take care, Mark

Hello redcarrera,
If I was one, who perhaps drifted off on another Tangent, adressing another poster, then I hope you can forgive me.

Every now, and then we all toot our own horns a bit here, but I know of no better group, for straight, good no BS advice. The Asylum has some good info, but sometimes seems to more often stray from the good stuff lately.

I would suggest taking it to the next level, kicking it up a notch as Emeril would say!

I used a Shure VTF Scale for years, While I later found against other, better Scales that it was fairly accurate, without this confirmation, ti was always a guessing game, wondering just how accurate it was?

Other people here can direct you to good websites that sell high quality digital scales that don;t cost an arm, and leg. Places like Scales For Less I think, and another place I personally found, called "Will Knot Scales".

Just recently, I believe I have bought the exact same scale as the Clearaudio Weight Watcher Scale, which sells for $200-$225 at places like MusicDirect-Audio Advisor, for only $29.90 plus shipping from Will Knot!

This Scale if you would like to search, and compare is called the Proscale LC-50. It is a 50g Scale that reads in .01 increments. The Clearaudio Weight Watcher professes .02g accuracy, which is probably about right.

Dowsnside of this Scale, which I have checked with lab calibration weights, and have found very accurate, and repeatable with its reading, is that the Weighing Platform is .6" high, and this is no good for accurate Stylus force with the Tonearm. One needs a Scale that will read exactly at the same height as an LP sitting on the Platter.

As Doug Deacon has suggested to me, a small fabricated non-magnetic ledge (Brass-Alu), that attaches to the weighing platform (Glued perhaps), that is at LP height would be ideal.

As for Cartridges, I cannot expree enough to do as much homework as you can. This forum is free to use, and you should read about the qualities of Benz, Dynavector, ZYX, Lyra, Sumiko, Grado, Ortofon, Koestsu, and so many other quality Cartridges which you might be able to afford?

If I were you, I would look at Cartridges such as the Lyra Dorian, ZYX Fuji, Dynavetor, Sumiko Blackbird, possibly Benz if you like a warmer presentation, and have a system that is perhaps highly analytical.

Do get some good tools, perhaps the Cardas Sweep, and Burn LP, a good Protractor, like either the Mo Fi Geodisc, or Turntable Basics Mirror Protractor.

Again my friend, do educucate yourself which will be the best match for your Phon Stage as far as Gain, and Loading options. Mark