@axo1989 , Atmos will "see" your speaker setup (2,5,7,11, whatever) and do its best to place each sound object in the mix. I have tried atmos with only two speakers and a subwoofer and compared to stereo and in my rig I notice a difference in the soundstage and the bass. You can compare yourself and see how you like. 

Here is an interview with the engineers at Abbey Road on remixing Pink Floyd in immersive audio:

@ebm , that’s funny :) Here is a link to an interview of Giles Martin (George Martins son) on remixing the Beatles in Atmos:

An announcement from Universal Music:

“This is a completely new way to create and experience music, freeing artists to be more expressive and experimental with their recordings,” said Todd Pendleton, Chief Marketing Officer and Senior Vice President, Dolby Laboratories. “Dolby Atmos Music envelops the listener, bringing you inside the music and creating a visceral ‘wow.’”

“UMG and Dolby are fundamentally expanding how we experience music,” said Michael Frey, UMG’s President of Operations, Global Studios and Technologies. “Artists will be able to share their music directly as intended and created in the studio. Dolby Atmos Music give artists the power and creative freedom to express their story like never before.”

Dolby Atmos is integrated at UMG’s iconic studios, including: Capitol Records Studios in Hollywood, Abbey Road Studios in London, and Berry Hill Studios in Nashville. UMG labels around the world are all working on creating immersive music content in Dolby Atmos.

Interesting responses, and I agree, they are both capable of providing an engaging and immersive experience. Fortunately it isn’t necessary to eliminate either one of them. But they ARE different, stereo is channel based and atmos is object based. The limitation of atmos is having to use so many speakers but for people who already have home theaters it is easy to try. If you subscribe to apple music or tidal atmos music comes with your subscription so it isn’t necessary to buy a bunch of blue rays or SACD. I don’t think this format will die out the way "surround" music has withered. The mixing engineers are creating new content constantly.

@cd318, 5.1 surround sound has an advantage of adding the center channel. Stereo was originally 3 channel and as you know two channel depends on a phantom center. Having a center channel in place makes the system a bit less dependent on a phantom center but that is a preference, not a necessity. Atmos adds another dimension of sound coming from above you. Think of what speakers on the left and right do, Speakers above and below give the engineer more possibilities to mix with. Objects are placed in the mixing software and are rendered as closely as possible to the mix with YOUR speaker setup. Here is a clip about object based sound:

@fuzztone you are correct, the majority of movies and shows streaming today are mixed in 5.1.

The majority of immersive/surround MUSIC streaming however is on apple music and tidal and mixed in atmos.

Atmos does provide a 3D soundstage. Instead of just expending left to right and front and back it expands with a height dimension. An object based format is a more precise way for the engineer to mix the soundstage in 3 dimensions.

I like stereo too, especially in the mornings listening at low volumes.

@sdw , I agree with needing more material but have found an excellent work around. The upmixers in a processor are decent but the X-Box has an upmixer that will provide an actual Atmos, DTS, or DTS-X stream. It is fantastic and the X-Box Series S is small and around $300. I stream every movie in atmos or DTS even though most of them are using dolby 5.1 soundtracks. I have not tried gaming on it yet but it has every streaming service I use and it also has Plex, Tidal (through Plex), Amazon Music, Deezer and Spotify. You can also stream via DLNA. Basically I can make every track Atmos music by playing it through the X-Box.

@sdw , congrats on your new receiver. When installing your height channels there is a universal layout that you can use for both atmos and auro. Have you installed height speakers yet?

@marshinski15 , absolutely true about stereo. Some music is being mixed in Atmos and the engineer is trying to convey the artists intent. If you read the article I linked to above here is how Giles Martin describes it:

We start off with the stereo. I feel immersive audio should be an expansion of the stereo field, in a way. I like the idea of a vinyl record melting and you’re falling into it. That’s the analogy I like to use. And if you have lots and lots of things all around you all the time, it can get slightly irritating and confusing, depending on what the music is.

and then

With Beatles mixes, because we have, I suppose, the money to do it, and the luxury of time, what I and [engineer] Sam Okell tend to do, opposed to using digital effects, is we’ll place speakers back in Studio Two [the Abbey Road space where the Beatles originally recorded]. And we’ll re-record John’s voice in Studio Two, so what you’re hearing are the reflections of the room he’s singing in. It brings the vocal closer to you.

Now this is for a pre-existing stereo mix that is converted to atmos. For music that is being mastered in atmos you have the artist right there and the engineer asks them about their intent. One atmos mix is backward compatible with the speaker setup of the listener, it could be stereo, 5.1, in your car, headphones, etc.

See:

If you read this article I posted above they are interviewing the studio owners and engineers about mixing in atmos. I was VERY lucky to have corresponded with the owner of The Dub Stage and Galaxy Studios about not only my room setup but my room treatment. My intention was to be able to recreate what they experience on the mixing stage in a way that translated to my own listening room. It was not difficult, just needed to take it step by step. The results are very satisfying and I still listen to both atmos and stereo, depending on what I’m listening to. I can select the format I want through my Marantz processor.

This is a pic of the setup at Abbey Road when they were remixing Pink Floyd in immersive audio, Notice the height speakers need to be on tall stands because they are heavy powered monitors with amps inside them. I use the same setup for my system as I use active speakers as well. I don’t like the stick the speaker in the ceiling approach as it is inconvenient and you lack flexibility to position and tilt them:

Here is a pic of a home version using speakers from SVS. No cutting holes in your ceiling, easy to mount, and will work with all of the immersive formats (atmos, dts-x, and auro-3d):

@sdw , that is how Wilhelm from Auro 3D suggests to do it. I positioned my pair of top middle speakers and split the difference so they can double as my VOG speakers for Auro.

This is a short video on the best Atmos speaker setup, using height channels in the front and back of the room right above your front and rear speakers:

Giles Martin on mixing Revolver in Atmos:

Steve Wilson on how he is mixing classic albums into Dolby Atmos. He states when Apple started offering Atmos the demand just exploded from 5.1 to Atmos overnight:

Brian Eno on Atmos music, his question with new technology, what can you do now you can never do before. He is excited to use Atmos to place sound in a proper space. He places the vocals in the MLP, why stick him on the wall in front? great video

@melvinjames , is this thread more genial?

@amir_asr , if you are happy with your mic, your laptop and your dry wall, fine with me. It is a waste of speakers IMO, but it is your money, spend it how you wish.

In this thread you can see videos of interviews with Abbey Road Studios, Giles Martin, Brian Eno, Steve Wilson, just to name a few who enjoy/prefer immersive audio.

You know Toole grooves on Auro 3D, are you aware of the work Tomlinson Holman (THX founder) did on MCH listening when he developed Audyssey DSX. Another fan of immersive audio. So here you have rock stars, audio superstars like Toole, and Holman and the list is getting longer every day. It is inappropriate that a guy reviewing MCH receivers doesn’t even have a proper room (that I know of). You got the other thread to help you with your build. If you need help feel free to post, NP.

BTW, look at the pic above of Abbey Road Studios, then Toole’s setup and then my own. All of our systems have MLP equidistant from front and rears, book shelfs as height channels mounted high on the wall angled down at the MLP. We ALL use a VOG channel, a center height channel, and matched speakers (Abbey Road and I use active, Toole uses passive). This is a good blueprint to follow for your build (except placing subs in the ceiling like Abbey Road Studios, LOL)

7X Grammy winning recording engineer Luis Barrera Jr. prefers Dolby Atmos music over two channel because the artists and producers he works with go wild for it:

PMC chief technical officer Oliver Thomas:

"Imagine listening to an orchestra from the position where the conductor stands, Atmos allows you to do that."

"Some artists are now composing music NOT through stereo speakers, buy through a Dolby Atmos system"

@brianlucey

So far you seem like one of the few members I have heard from that has seen that the "audio" puck seems to be going toward atmos. As a mastering engineer supporting the format you recently stated:

"My personal goal today is to set the high sonics bar in this emerging format. I’ve gone from very skeptical to one hundred percent all-in. No matter the future of the format, it’s a breath of fresh air to work in Atmos."

My personal experience aligns with yours. I started out skeptical after seeing DVD-A, DSD and SACD never really find a growth market. I find it a breath of fresh air to see innovation and this new format in growth mode too. Every new receiver and HT processor (even some soundbars) have it. Nearly all new 4K UHD bluerays have an atmos track. Atmos is on streaming services. Even my X-Box series S can stream atmos to my HT regardless of how the original content is mixed. When I saw the AES conference in NYC a few years back all about immersive audio I was wondering if it would stick. Now it looks like we are past sticking and once Apple got on board with spatial audio we are snowballing. What is your opinion on atmos not just for movies but for music? How can a hard core 2 channel enthusiast try the format without needing to risk $$$ on a new setup?

@brianlucey , that is a great perspective, thanks for posting. I never really considered that the majority of the population have never really heard a great two channel setup but it is so true. You have die hard enthusiast members here who are still looking for ways to upgrade. So when you talk about a general point of reference for good SQ among average listeners its basically what they hear in the car or ear buds. If Atmos can close that gap so average listeners can experience what a good setup can offe with daily driver type of gear that is easy to use that is a big win/win/win. Win for the artist/director, win for the studio/manufacturer and win for the consumer. I never thought about the mass market aspect of this before. I didn't realize the atmos headphone mix could be so good, probably can save $$$ on headphone rigs (I am not a headphone user, just for casual listening but might start now).

Re: the quality of work being done it must be expensive on the producers end. The first atmos mix has to be for theatrical release (unless its for streaming or music) and that has got to eat a lot of budget, then you have the nearfield mix for the home with any $ left over, then you got the 7.1, 5.1, stereo. The studio mix needs to translate so it won't blow up any ear pods, etc. Then you have emerging standards and lack of a universal system to calibrate reference, more $$$, I get it about early days. 

A lot of good info here, appreciate your insight and if you feel you are experimenting that goes for everyone. You have more format confusion with DTS-X/IMAX, Sony 360, Auro-3D, etc. The atmos setup can be confusing between the new nomenclature (5.1.4, 7.2.2, 9.2.7, etc) and then all of the variables on types of speakers and locations.

I found that once I got my hands on the Dolby setup specs it made it much easier to get the angles and distances down. Hopefully as this new format emerges that will be come a standard. To your point about a learning curve I am finding that the source content is much more important for SQ than the processor you use downstream. For example discs are generally better SQ than streaming services (except kaleidoscope).When I was reading how you said the most important "component" in your studio was your Trinnov calibration system I had to smile. When I went from a standard version of Audyssey to the Pro version with a calibrated mic and software using the PC not the one in the processor it was a huge upgrade. Not at the Trinnov level I'm sure but much better than the consumer version. Thanks again for your reply.

Jean-Michel Jarre:

"Immersive technology is the key to creating music of the future:

What Colin Leonard from the SOA studio at SING Mastering has found about Atmos music is it is the best system of reproducing music and I agree. Remember, you don’t have to trade stereo for Atmos. Listen near the end of this video as he describes going back to stereo on the same speakers after listening to the Atmos mix. He says:

"Mastering in Atmos you can create dynamics that are impossible in a stereo environment...that you just can’t get in a stereo system...Atmos is the best representation of music that you are going to hear anywhere"

@brianlucey , I was on your website, very nice list of accomplishments, congrats. If you have time can you post a pic of your atmos setup? If you are too busy that’s OK, thanks.

Black Ice demoed the new Aries headphone amp at Cedia 2022 and it should be out soon, this video is from the prototype:

Jim Fosgate breaks down the design strategy for the Aries headphone amp, it should be out soon. This interview is early stages:

@tablejockey , I have a similar situation, my room is well setup for atmos but it took effort. I totally discounted atmos in headphones, putting it in the category of upfiring speakers and atmos soundbars. Now that @brianlucey shared its a game its a game changer I am smiling. A really good stereo/headphone rig is $$$. I’ll bet I can get a good atmos headphone rig with a nice set of cans and one of those THX headphone amps for a lot less. What gets me REALLY excited if the idea of a SOA Atmos headphone rig. Did you ever hear of Jim Fosgate? Black Ice audio has partnered with him on their designs. They have a tube based headphone amp and are bringing out a SOA headphone amp (The Aries) that Jim designed to replicate his own SOA audio system. I am getting the idea of an tube based, SOA headphone/atmos system that wouldn’t be affordable or practical for my room.

I saw that Fosgate piece yesterday and of course immediately wanted it. Then I read the Stereophile review by Kal and realized it wasn't for me. If it needs service you gonna call?

@brianlucey can you recommend a pair of headphones for atmos music? I noticed the headphones have to be enabled for atmos. Just pulled the trigger on a new headphone amp, Thanks.

@brianlucey , I have been streaming Atmos music either using Tidal through a firestick (it is not very good) OR through using the Atmos renderer in the X-Box which converts everything to Atmos once you select it as your audio output.

Either one sounds better than Dolby Surround upmixer on my processor.

I intend to listen in my main listening system (in my profile). The DAC/pre I bought is the Sony Signature TA-ZH1ES. I can use it as a DAC with my HT processor, as a 2 CH preamp connected directly with my active speakers (they have both XLR and RCA inputs with a toggle switch), and as a headphone amp. My transport/streamer is my Sony Universal/Blue-Ray player, my Onkyo DAP (android OS), or my Bluesound Node. I am thinking about Sony’s matching headphones, the Signature MDR-Z1R and have a budget of around $2K. I can get an Apple product if necessary. Thanks for any advice.

@axo1989 , thanks for the tips. I have been less than thrilled with the Firestick, but it integrates well with Tidal and Atmos music. I agree it is time to take the leap into the apple ecosystem and the new ATV4K seems easy enough. It is nice to have so many choices of headphones and have never gotten into them much before. I was looking at getting a separate preamp for 2 CH in my main HT system and this checked that box. I was looking at DAC’s like the Chord Qutest and this checked that box too, the Qutest was about $300 less but lacked all of the other features this unit has. Finally I have never gone down the headphone rabbit hole because I prefer speakers. The fact that this unit had the other features I wanted the headphone amp was what pushed me over the edge to pull the trigger. I use a Sony universal player for CD’s. SACD’s, streaming via DLNA, and bluerays. I like the sound signature and we’ll see how it works as a transport for this unit. Just wanted to get some advice before jumping in with headphones that will do both 2 CH and atmos.

Apple "Spatial Audio" mix might be different than the Dolby Atmos mix created in the studio if you are using headphones. Apple has its own "spatial audio" renderer for headphones that takes the original atmos mix and puts it through its own renderer UNLESS you are using ATV4K via HDMI to a receiver. If you want the original mix on headphones use Tidal. Check out this diagram and the follow up article:

@axo1989 , it isn't necessarily good or bad, but different. Dolby makes a big deal about artist intent, they should use the same renderer if possible IMO.

@axo1989 👍

@donavabdear ​​​​@brianlucey 

You might like:

Upcoming Events for Engineers and Professionals who want to learn more about Atmos Music:

Producing in Atmos workshop:

https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/1146420520915394135

Dolby Atmos Music at NAMM 2022

A tour of the Atmos studio at Sweetwater. FWIW I got my Black Lion power conditioner and Auralex Sustain diffusors at Sweetwater and got great deals and support. In the video they are using 9 bed channels and IMO the wide channels are very important and use a 9.2.7 setup personally:

@donavabdear , Atmos has competition from Sony 360, THX has an immersive codec, Sennheiser has Ambeo, and Xperia has DTS-X. I don’t think AES can be brand specific without causing a controversy. All you need is to go visit some studios and get a feel for it. The Dubstage is local, I think @brianlucey has extended an invitation in the other thread. There are online classes sponsored by Dolby and I am sure local stuff in LA. If I were in LA I would make a beeline to the Dubstage but you likely already have friends in the "mix" so to speak. You learn by doing and it looks like a blast from the videos I watch. What do you think?

@donavabdear

As for the strengths of the other formats I would say DST-X/ Imax Enhanced is more dynamic in movies but there is no music I am aware of in that format. Auro-3D is not being produced right now but they never really got traction. Sony is gaining traction in Sony 360 music on Tidal and as a Codec available on Sound United products. I think it is targetd more for headphones. Sennheiser Ambeo is mixed more for commercial venues. THX Spatial Audio is available as an upmixer in certain computers and phones. The elephant in the room is Dolby and when Atmos became available on Apple Music the demand for atmos mixes went through the roof. I would learn Atmos before learning any of the others. I’ll bet if you start going through Apple Music spatial audio mixes you will quickly learn the mixes you like. Find out who the engineers are that mixed those tracks and that would be a good starting point. Your community has been very approachable in my experience and I’ll bet an e-mail with a compliment about the mixes you liked followed up by a "If you were me how would you get started" will get you in the fast lane so I can start listening to YOUR mixes.

I have the last Kenny Wayne Shepard Atmos Blueray, here is the process of mixing the next one:

Atmos Music in a Benz: