I did the test at the dealer and it didn't do it there. They took my player back and I upgraded to the Mcintosh Mt10, it plays wonderful. I think it may have something to do with the cartridge reproducing the sound of certain things like maybe its strecthing the limit of the cartridge or something, don't know. On mine, I had the same problem with clapton slow hand in some points with his voice and the back up voices. If you have that album try it. I would play other much more musical albums and not notice any problem other than now they sound even better thru the Mcintosh. What player do you have? |
Beerdraft,
Any update to your problem? From reading your initial post, your screathing noise that you describe when listening to Norah Jones (Come away with me) vinyl record sounds similar to my problem. It sounds like the record is messed up at those particular spots. For me the first song on Side A, has that annoying screeching sound that lasts like one second or so near the beginning. It also happens on track 7 on Side A when she sings a high note. I got the 200 gram version of the Norah Jones, do you have the same record? I think this record was mastered/recorded very poorly(with this screeching sound flaw) on to the vinyl during production, cause I only seem to have this problem with this record ONLY. I think there might have been a bad batch of records made from Classic Records. Just to rule out that the record might be dirty(which it isn't cause I just bought it), even after cleaning it, the same spots on the track have that annoying screech sound. Based on that, I think the problem lies with the record, not your setup. Try bringing that Norah Jones record to your dealer and play it on his vinyl rig(assuming his table is set up correctly) and if you hear these same screeching sounds, it's the record.
Good luck ! |
My dealer wants me to get the mcintosh mt10 and has made me a really sweet deal on it and took my project back. Any thoughts on this table which is factory set and should need no adjustment. I wonder if you can upgrade cartridge on this table. |
got it boxed up and will let you guys know. I did see several set-up LP's on musicdirect.com. That is where I got all my vinyl so far. They had a analogue productions test lp and then a couple of others. I'll probably invest in a couple of those and get someone to assist me in the first set-up, then I should be able to do it from there. I just get confused easily and if not confident in what I'm doing, I tend to lose focus.
thanks, |
When I got my turntable, my dealer said that his turntable specialist was the best in the east. He charged me 300 dollars, and for that I expected perfection. Every parameter was "about" right, but with analogue, its got to be perfect, or it isn't. I found that I can do a much better job than the dealer's expert. If you take your time and relax, you will be better as well. |
I don't know if the dealer is going to refund the purchase price, give you a new one, or take it back in trade for a better model, but I can't imagine him letting you walk out his door without finding out what the problem is, and correcting it. He should help you get to the bottem of this, and guide you so you can understand what's involved in playng records. This is a very rewarding hobby, so I hope he does the right thing, and gets things straightened out to your satisfaction. If he knows and cares about what he is doing that's what he will do.
Fill us in on what happens, would you Beerdraft?
Best of luck, Dan
o. |
I gave up so far at home. I'm going to box it up and take it back to dealer. I have a couple of people local thru a'gon who said they would come help set it up. I may do an upgrade at this point and have someone else set it up for me. I give up on this player as when it makes a bad sound unexpectedly it sounds like the speker is blown and I don't know if that is good for the speakers. I'm just about ready and researching upgrades on my other equiupment and maybe a better turntable will keep me from wanting to upgrade it once I get all other components upgraded.
thanks |
If they say the set-up is right, maybe the table/arm isn't the problem. The problem may lie in the cartridge. The Sumiko Pearl is a very underwhelming cartridge, to say the least. I would ask the dealer if he has a good demo cartridge he can mount in it, and see if that's the problem. The Experience2 isn't that bad a table, and my advice is if it turns out to be the cartridge, get a replacement cartridge, a little better-sounding one, (and obviously one that works), and keep the table you have and get used to how it works, how to set it up, and then after you've had it a while, then maybe you'll have a little better idea of what your next move should be. Just my opinion, but small steps at first might be the way to go.
Regards, and best of luck, Dan |
okay I'm really goin' crazy now. I'm thru adjusting, give up. I'm toaking it back as I've already taken it to the dealer once and they said they had it right and it wasn't. I'm thinking I've got to get rid of this table. All things happen for a reason and maybe this is telling me I'm not going to be happy with this table down the road. I'm going to ask to upgrade or get a new one. If I upgrade, I'm sure I'll have to stick with the project line. Which project table is going to give me the best experience? Obviously the answer is the rm10 I think the top of the line but is it worth $2599 or would I be just as well with one of the models at about $1500 I think the rm9 and one other is at this price? nither of these come with a cartidge and I don't know what the minimum cartridge one of these players deserve. Advice please, I've made up my mind to move on up a little. |
Beerdraft, there was a cardboard overhang/cartridge alignment tool that came in the parts package with the table. You might look for it. I used it to first set up my experience2. I now have a VPI Scout, which has a metal jig for set-up, and a DB systems tool, and I use 'em both, and check set-up using first the VPI jig, then the DB systems, and if it's right on both, then I'm pretty sure I've nailed it. The cardboard one that comes with the table works pretty well, so I'd use it, if you can locate it. Good luck, Dan |
No its not the same as VTA. Overhanng adjustment proceeds as follows: A good idea is to put some tape on the turntable platter so that it will not move when tinkering with this. With your arm you should have received a gizmo that looks like a graph with vertical and/or horizontal lines. It may be made of cardboard, paper, steel, plastic or any number of materials. Most of them have a hole, or an indication where your spindle should be used. Put the guage on the spindle and carefully position the sylus on the indicated spot (either an x or a dot, etc. Make very sure that the cartridge lines up with the lines on the guage by loostening the attaching screws of the cartridge and moving it forward, or back so that it aligns PERFECTLY with the lines on the guage and that the stylus is simultaneously sitting exactly on the indicated mark (the x or dot on the guage). Sometimes there are 2 places for this adjustmentment...both places should absolutely line up without moving the guage or turntable platter, but only by repositioning the arm/cartridge. When this is carefully done, tighten the cartridge screws, and recheck your work. If it is not correct, correct it. If you didn't get a guage with your table, you can get one free via the internet..check "free tools" on Enjoythemusic.com, or you can buy one from your local or internet purveyer of stereo goodies. |
how do you adjust overhang? is that the same thing as VTA? |
great I'll check into those. Is there a scale for measuring the overhang or vta I think? How do you check the azimuth. Maybe I need a kit for this if there is one for the whole setup because I may upgrade cartridge soon anyway and I would probably have to know how to do it all then.
thanks |
The cheap shure that Stringreen is referring to is a VTF scale - a meachanical one thathas been around for years. can be bought for about $20. I personally use one by Steve Blinn desigs - a digital one that is accurate to .1g. It was only $89. He sells them here on A'gon. |
Hey Dan, funny, the sumiko guy just emailed me and said he thinks its in the overhang. Can't remember if he said to much or to little but I needed clarification on which way to adjust the (I geuss the VTA) up or down at the base of the tone arm. This is like trying to learn A forign language, and the only reason I got thru two years of spanish is the fine blonde girl who sat in front of me both years. I can't speak a word of it though.
thanks |
I'm fairly new (after 18 years away) back into the vinyl wars, and my first table when I got back in was a Project Experience2. As I recall, you are correct about azimuth. I experimented with anti-skating, and found on that table, with that cartridge, using a/s or no a/s made little difference in the way it tracked, either way I never heard what you are describing. I have learned that proper alignment and overhang is the real critical thing. It's amazing how just a tiny bit of difference in set-up makes a large difference in how distortion-free your arm/cartridge tracks. If you live in or near a large city, and have a good analog retailer available, have them check set-up for you. It'll cost a few bucks, but it'll be worth it, and maybe they'll give you pointers to help next time. Good luck, and enjoy-
Dan |
What is overhang and I don't know what digital scall or cheap sure is. Please advise. I switched the inputs on the preamp and it went to the left side now. It was on the right normally, so thank god its not my speaker. |
I don't think its anti-skate.. I'm using NO anti-skate at all and it sounds good. I really think its tracking too light,or overhang is wrong. If you're checking with a digital scale, dump it and use a cheap Sure. |
still does the same thing. I adjusted the anti skate as well and still the same. Is it possible either the record has a bad spot in it where I most noteably hear it or is it possible my speaker has a problem? I will switch inputs now to rule out speaker. If this doesn't work I'll go to the place I bought it and listen to the same song and see if it does it there. Most songs sound fine and I don't notice anything wrong. I think I will see tomorrow if they will get me a new player or I may even upgrade. This bugs me because I can't stand not knowing. back to more listening
thanks |
Try removing the weight/string. See what happens. Let us know. |
ah-ha: VTF, I got you. I think my cartidge reccomends 1.5 to 2.0 vtf and I've moved it from min to max in small increments. It does go from one channel to the other but I cant seem to get it go away. I got a 15X magnigier today and will inspect the stylus better. The antiskate is just a small weight which has three notches on the tone arm and sumiko sais put it in the 2nd notch. Is it possible the suspension is messed up on the cantilever or something like that causing inconsistant tracking. I'm really reaching now and have no idea what I'm talking about.
thanks |
VTF= vertical tracking force
VTA= vertical tracking angle
changing tone arm height will change VTA, not VTF.
From your descripton, sounds like too much antiskate at first and then too little after you raised VTF. That makes sense geometrically. And antiskate would be mostly an issue at end of record. Mistracking will occur first in heavily modulated groove areas which will be consistently in the same place each time you play a certain LP and not present at all if the recordings were made at lower levels. |
No don't to lift the back of the arm. Make sure it's level to begin. Add more weight. What are you tracking at? |
also I did dial tracking force back down in very small steps and it never went away in the trouble spots. On clapton the crackle seems to come from the bassy part of his voice and on nora jones it the hi part of her voice. Iput my ear right up to the speakers to hear this. |
thanks, Ithink some of this makes since. It was coming from the left speaker than I dialed up the tracking force to the max reccomended for the sumiko pearl (2.0) It then started coming from the right speaker. So more tracking force made it go from left to right. VTF to increase is that rasing the base of the tone arm? It seems to be parrallel to me but it could be off a little with me just eye ballin it. Wierd thing is I can go thru two or three records and not hear anything wrong, for instance (anthony wilson power of 9, dire straits, and eagles. But on a couple of others nora jones and clapton screathing with there voice in certain areas but not the whole song or albub. Call me crazy but I think it did it most times on the or close to the last track (almost the same area on each record) then fine the rest of the way.
thanks,
beerdraft |
Distortion where from? What cartridge are you using?
left speaker- too much anti skate
Right speaker- too little anti skate
Both speakers- you're tracking too light. Increase VTF slowly and listen.
If these don't work, maybe problem is somewhere else maybe tracking error. Check your stylus position with protractor. These are just rough guides. In analog, anything is possible. |
Sounds to me like mistracking, likely from incorrect VTF or antiskate. Try going through the range of VTF in small steps, since mistracking can occur either way, but more likely with too little VTF. Too much antiskate can also cause mistracking and since you say its more in one channel than the other, that's my guess. |
