What exactly is PRaT???


Ok, it’s like this thing and is associated with “toe tapping” and such.  I confess, I don’t get it.  Apparently companies like Linn and Naim get it, and I don’t and find it a bit frustrating.  What am I missing?  I’m a drummer and am as sensitive as anyone to timing and beats, so why don’t I perceive this PRaT thing that many of you obviously do and prize as it occurs in stereo systems?  When I read many Brit reviews a lot of attention goes to “rhythm” and “timing” and it’s useless to me and I just don’t get it.  If someone can give me a concrete example of what the hell I’m not getting I’d sincerely be most appreciative.  To be clear, enough people I greatly respect consider it a thing so objectively speaking it’s either something I can’t hear or maybe just don’t care about — or both.  Can someone finally define this “thing” for me cause I seriously wanna learn something I clearly don’t know or understand.  

soix

@bolong ...Re Cha-cha cha...."Fascinating, but you can't dance to it..."

Dense....dwarf star alloy level, if speed read you will bruise one's brain...

MHO, and I'm stuck with it. ;)

@immatthewj ... It's been and will continue for quite awhile, an Experience.
Can't say recommended....but the Pause to look about you and consider....😔

Yes, back to PRaT falls... ;)

Hey, if what you listen to doesn't make you 'move' in some fashion, physically and/or emotionally, in yet another mho, you're listening to the wrong stuff.

Ultimately, the means that you apply to create that grand illusion for as long as you love or tolerate it despite the bugs ignored to do so....

...IS the Point.

*blink*

PRaTically guaranteed .... ;)

'ciao, J

PRAT is Brat.

@soix have you ever listened to a Naim system from source to speakers?  Or Naim electronics with ATC speakers?

I got back into the hifi hobby about 20 years ago.  I was traveling for work at the time and would visit brick and mortar stores all across the US, and I listened to all kinds of systems from budget to quite exotic.  There were surprisingly few setups that actually moved me.  One that did was a Naim CD player and Nait XS integrated amplifier with Naim floor standing speakers.  Not the last word in detail or power, but it just sounded so incredibly “right”.  The music had momentum and flow, and yes it made me want to tap my toe.  I later decided that is what people are talking about when they say “PRAT”, and wondered what engineering trick or emphasis was employed to achieve it.  I could have listened to that system all day.  I had an opportunity to hear some very high end Naim gear at the time, and while the detail, lack of distortion, spatial representation and power of the music were clearly better, the music seemed a bit more sterile compared to their more entry level gear.  (Naim’s newest higher end gear has it all however.)

I have thought about what I consider to be “PRAT” a lot since then, and have been chasing it in my systems, while also trying to achieve what I consider convincing imaging, dynamics and tone.  If you don’t “hear” PRAT in yours or others systems, but you are enjoying what you’re hearing, I wouldn’t worry about it.  I enjoyed listening to recorded music immensely for years before becoming aware of PRAT, but now I can’t un-hear it.

Someone mentioned Tony Rice previously.  I find his work with David Grisman’s Quintet and Grisman’s dawg music in general from the late 70s and early 80s to really swing and be loaded with PRAT.  The recording by MOKAVE called Afrique is another great recording to test your system’s PRAT capabilities.

YMMV

kn

@panzrwagn "Overall, I believe PRaT is fundamentally about controlling and minimizing stored energy within a system. It is the release of that stored energy that smears the sound, robbing the music of PRaT."

I think you’re right on the mark based on my listening experiences. Two categories of components that seem to inhibit PRaT from my perspective are:

  1. High mass turntables
  2. High powered Class AB amplifiers

Both store a good amount of energy from what I know: high mass turntables are slow to release vibration and higher power amplifiers need larger power supplies to handle the bigger current demands.

@bolong Agreed with your statement that "It requires a clean start and stop of a transient". I agree that I don't think it has anything to do with timing per se, but rather having sharp leading and trailing edges for when a sound wave starts and stops.

@calvinandhobbes 

I think you’re right on the mark based on my listening experiences. Two categories of components that seem to inhibit PRaT from my perspective are:

  1. High mass turntables
  2. High powered Class AB amplifiers

I never experienced PRaT until I acquired my Hegel H390 (Class A/B rated at 250 watts @8 ohms). 

@steakster

You’re welcome. Glad someone found it worthwhile. Those guys are two of the best player-teachers online.