What exactly is PRaT???

@mkorsunsky

Ever heard of irony or phrasemes (fixed expressions)?​ ​​​

Yes. But when utilized without providing a context, they don’t communicate much.

While I appreciate the additional information, it’s still not clear to me how those two companies relate to a discussion of PRaT.

@calvinandhobbes 

I think you’re right on the mark based on my listening experiences. Two categories of components that seem to inhibit PRaT from my perspective are:

1. High mass turntables
2. High powered Class AB amplifiers

I never experienced PRaT until I acquired my Hegel H390 (Class A/B rated at 250 watts @8 ohms). 

@soix

One question: do you experience some systems as more rhythmically engaging  than others?

@soix

No. I do not. A system either plays music the way I perceive it or it does not.

Well, that’s pretty definitive! Considering the fact that you are a drummer and (I presume) very familiar with how rhythms "feel" in your body, I don’t feel qualified to challenge you on this.

I have noticed over the years that reviews by Brits seem to often mention PRaT. It would be interesting to ask Tarun (A British Audiophile) what it means to him.

@soix

Paul McGowan: "What is PRaT and do the British do it Better?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YGgMpX3XII

FWIW, he says, regarding pace, rhythm and timing, "I think it’s one of those things that, if you haven’t ever experienced them, it’s hard to describe". He asserts that, although PRaT is not a top priority for him, he's found it can and does vary, depending upon the gear used.

This is my experience as well, although I’m in no way suggesting I’m in a remotely similar category when it comes to experience/knowledge as P. M.

To me, it’s best described as a "propulsive quality" that cannot be defined solely in terms of BPM. Scientifically, this sounds ridiculous but for some of us, at least, it’s palpable. Perhaps there’s an as-yet-unexplored physiological aspect to this that comes into play.

@mkorsunsky

Why "partners in crime" ?

What is "criminal" about PRaT and how can any definition of music exclude harmony?

@richardbrand

Of course, the actual music does not really slow down, nor change in pitch, nor timing (unless stylus drag actually slows a turntable down!)..

But our perception of when the beat starts is affected by the arrival pattern in time of the first transients of a note. If the leading edge is sharp, not smeared in time, your brain will snap into recognising the start of something special. I am suggesting microseconds here! Get this right, and you’ll likely find your foot tapping ...

Seems plausible.

@calvinandhobbes

The type of music you’re listening to matters in term of whether PRaT is relevant.

 

Perhaps I simply don’t understand how you are defining PRaT or perhaps it’s the fact that how rhythms are presented by a system is vital to my engagement as a listener, but either way, I’m having difficulty grasping how any genre wouldn’t benefit from a system that presents PRaT well. . . unless one is solely listening to ambient music that "hovers" in space. 

@calvinandhobbes 

Orchestral music, as a vast generalization, tends to have interactions between the different instrumental sections that is of a nature that is not as quick and transient as those in jazz music.

Thanks for kindly pointing out what is probably obvious to many, here. I tend to favor smaller groups, which means I rarely listen to Big Band Jazz and never listen to orchestral music. My comments reflected my unfamiliarity/ignorance.

@rwortman

. . . The PRaT that audio writers prattle about is an illusion . . .

. . . and yet for some us, at least, the presentation of pace, rhythm and timing is discernibly different from one system to another.

@bolong

Master of PRAT ie."swing"

You might check out this analysis, exploring how Little Wing in fact incorporates both straight time and swing, which is why it’s deceptively difficult to get right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uGDYs__ZP8

@steakster

You’re welcome. Glad someone found it worthwhile. Those guys are two of the best player-teachers online.  

@jwei 

When I first read about music reproduced with good pace, rhythm, and timing, I assumed the system had elevated midbass and treble to emphasize drums, cymbals, etc. and an uncompressed dynamic range.

 

You say when you "first heard... [you] assumed..." 

Does this mean you have subsequently clarified it for yourself through direct experience or. . . ? 

@jwei

I haven’t been into audio long enough to associate this term with any brand. When I researched my Hegel H390, I encountered mentions of its tendency to "move the music along" and once in my system, this was indeed apparent. It was not only noticeably different from other integrateds I’d owned but also from the much-more-costly systems owned by two friends -- both long-time audiophiles. Perhaps PRaT is just a marketing term but so far I haven’t encountered another that appears to be a more appropriate description of this particular phenomenon. OK -- "Boogie Factor" -- maybe. But that’s not very specific, 

Because I’ve discovered rhythmic engagement is crucial to my listening enjoyment, the fact that this "propulsive" capacity was repeatedly mentioned in connection with the Hegel definitely piqued my curiosity. However, I recognize that each of us has different priorities when it comes to sonic attributes so it's understandable that this capacity might not matter so much to you or others, here.