What Does It Take To Surpass A SME V?

@albertporter -Albert, thanks for weighing in. I think this did address the OP’s question directly based on your experience.

@mijostyn - I’m not taking "shots" at you and feel for you if you are suffering from an influenza.

As you might recall, I have both the Kuzma Airline and the 4 Pt 9" arms. The pods for the XL are 30 lbs each and are immovable without considerable effort. My set up is on an HRS platform, which in turn sits on the big Minus K bench top isolator-the BM-1, which has an optional floor stand of welded steel with a phenolic top and indents for the feet. It is tricky to set up, particularly with a table like the XL where there is no single center of mass and that mass is distributed via the HRS platform. It does work well, though. And the trick to adjusting the arm level is to use the arm behavior itself-- using the technique of how it tracks in the run-out groove as well as its behavior along the rail on which the arm travels.

I’ve found that lower compliance cartridges, like the stone Koetsus, behave better in this arm than higher compliance cartridges. There is no "wander" or "hunting and seeking" unless the record itself is out of round. My experience with this set up is that you don’t hear the sound of a record playing--what I call a "halo" which is an artifact you can more easily discern when it is absent.

This is not for everybody- it’s complicated by the need for an air compressor, which is located in another room in a silencer box I had fabricated (by wood workers, I don’t have your skill). I hear no air hiss or high frequency anomalies caused by the air bearing; I’d say the biggest negatives are cost, set up and dealing with air compressors (I got pretty good at servicing them- the Silentaire folks are not far from me, in Houston, and have been great).

PS: the Koetsu also lends a certain gravitas to the sound that the Lyra and Airtights lacked. Interestingly, when at Albert’s we directly compared the Airtight Opus to a Koetsu Blue Lace--you can readily hear the difference on Albert’s system-the Opus was more linear in sound, but I could hear more "wood" on the drum sticks via the Koetsu. Perhaps a coloration, a little of that Koetsu "technicolor" splendor, but it works really well in my system, given the character of the Avantgarde Duos and the rest of the system in my room with the addition of 15" subs and DSP (only on those subs).

I hope you feel better.

Bill

@mijostyn - Didn’t mean to turn this into a full length book, but to finish, taking some of your questions, I had both arms on the XL for a little while but at a certain point, found I could not get the Minus K to do its thing--it wasn’t load per se, but balance. So, I now have one of the Kuzma arm pods being used as a doorstop and mounted the baby 4 Pt on my vintage Technics SP-10, which runs in my vintage Quad system downstairs in the front parlor. My brief comparison while they were both on the same table/system, using the same cartridge- a Koetsu Jade-- was that the Airline sounded better but truth be told, I had not spent enough time with the 4 Pt to be confident I was getting the last measure out of it.

On the subwoofer settings, if you are familiar with the older Duo, they are hard to dial in (Jim Smith knows how). If you get them to deliver bass, you can hear the discontinuity, if you make the integrated woofers cohere with the mid-horn, they are bass shy. The 15" subs are set to roll off at around 50 or 55 hz (can’t remember without checking) on a 24db slope. I was reluctant to introduce processing on the main two channel system, but did a pretty good job, starting with letting the DSP do its magic to flatten some humps, then dialed them in with the continuously variable phase knob, gain and that roll off. Final adjustments were made with the help of my wife and a selection of records.
I think the combo of Koetsu, the Minus K and the subs gives the system real (but not "look at me!") bass with tone, texture and dimensionality. I listen to a lot of small combo post bop jazz- am a big fan of Cecil McBee and the darn thing sounds like a real double bass in a club. Most of his output was in the ’70s, not the high point of vinyl in the US, but he’s still with us.

I do know there is a school of using processing for crossovers, phase, etc. with otherwise antiquarian equipment. That’s a whole other subject. It’s a very good system, tuned to my taste without sounding bombastic (or sounding like different systems playing at you at the same time). I did have a mini-HQD system back in the day (didn’t use the Hartley 24" but Quads, Decca ribbons and a few different woofers). Although my friend said "you can kiss every note," it did sound like three different things playing at the same time.

Whew.

How are you feeling?

Fwiw, I visited the always lovely Albert Porter recently. If I recall, he was a fan of the SME V and is currently using a pair of the John Holmes version of the Kuzma 4 Pt. on his SP-10mkIII, installed on the Porter Panzerholz plinth of his design.  Albert is pretty meticulous about set up. We got to hear two very different cartridges mounted on identical arms- a Koetsu Blue Lace and an Airtight Opus. It was instructive. But for the purposes of this thread, I think it is safe to say that Albert liked the big daddy Kuzma arm over the SME. Whether that would fit on the table in question is not an answer I can provide. I do have the 9 inch version, which does not afford VTA on the fly- it is well constructed and pretty easy to set up (though I did buy a Mint protractor to do so). 

I miss his posts here. Maybe he can weigh in. @albertporter.

I had a great time "visiting" with Albert. 

When I have time, I'll address @mijostyn views on linear trackers and high mass turntables. Mijo said he is suffering from flu, so I don't want to burden him with unnecessary stress- which is not good for recovery of flu symptoms. 

@lewm- it is an H3000 which I got from a guy in Texas named Porter, when he distributed the line in the States. I only roll the rectifier and my fav for my system voicing is a GEC u-52, another not so easy to find tube these days. (I did get a NIB metal base Philips-Miniwatt from Andy at VTS, it has marvelous bass-but is less airy in my system-in a different system it might be better- it’s now a grail tube). No, no feedback issues at all. (NB- the depth of field in the photo makes it look like that horn is aimed at the TT, but the horns are toed in just past the "plane" of the table and they are pretty directional). 

Audio clubs, formal or informal, are great. I was involved in one in NY back in the ’80s-- got to meet a lot of people who in turn shared their systems, swapped records and had fun. That’s one of the reasons--apart from finally meeting Albert in person after many years--that my recent visit to Albert’s was such fun. He has a regular listening group every week. We listened to a lot of different things (his Studer is gorgeous as was his selection of tapes), had some laughs and enjoyed each other’s company. It’s a great way to express and stimulate your interests in music, gear and all the "stuff" we seem to do in this pursuit. DC metro seems to have a fair number of audiophiles.

There are a few people I’m aware of here in Austin that have serious systems, but very little brick and mortar, which used to be another way to meet and hang-- the after hours demos, the friends you make in the hobby, etc.

Obviously, if you ever get to Austin, you are welcome to visit.

Thank you, @thekong. I had a client who had a Rockport table and we spent the evening listening to his system. I liked that table a lot. I can't remember the cartridge, it was quite a long time ago. Happy to you too!

@mijostyn - thanks for the comments and thoughts. I'll reply more fully when I have more time. I hope you are feeling better. 

Bill

@mijostyn -sorry about that-school starts tomorrow (I teach part-time) and there's always a lot of last minute stuff no matter how well prepared you are.

I bought the big Minus K bench top rated for a 250 lb load because I was concerned about footfalls in this old (restored) 1880s Victorian home. The building is a jewel, vibes like a Western museum downstairs, original wood, wainscoting, high ceilings, almost all the glass is original on the main floor, transom windows, almost all original metal guides, rails, latches replated, all indoor shutters disassembled and restored, etc. It's a cool house if you ever visit Austin you must see it. The fact that much of it is original is due to poverty of the owners during the 20th century. The house does have a storied history but I won't go into all that here. 

I was going to build a separate outbuilding, but once we decided how to use the space, the upstairs "loft"- which is more modern, was perfect (and the cost and disruption associated with the outbuilding was more than I wanted to bear). 

I did have a structural engineer look at it and he said no way on wall mounting the table- he said the walls would move even if he did a steel install (you know those hanging toilets-- they hang from a steel substructure that can take huge weight). 

So, balancing the XL was a little tricky, getting the right level for the arm to do its thing is a little like dialing in VTA- you adjust an increment and check. It's actually a tiny adjustment that nails it. 

The bearing- I know I researched this at one point, I think Franc buys those, yes, hi pressure (well, 65psi), the little Slientaire suitcase style was supplied with the arm, it eventually died (I gather they all do and it had to cycle frequently because the tank was small); I think got a 6 gallon 1/2 HP one, very quiet but it ran into problems, mainly having to do with not draining properly-- for some reason, Silentaire has the drain the top of the tank with an "auto drain" feature that siphons the oil/water out but they are finicky. (At one point a had a 1 hp 13 gallon compressor set up-- total overkill, it was also tripping a 20 amp breaker). 

Now using an oilless custom job from the Houston folks--I think it was meant for a tattoo gun--it is noisier than the oil compressors and has a small stainless tank but a drain on the bottom. In my silencer box, it is dead quiet in the music room but if you are downstairs you can hear it thump when it kicks on. 

Silencer box, above. More later if you can stand it. 

@mijostyn - my oversight and certainly not meant as a slight to you. Consider yourself invited. Formula 1 is crazy town here. All restaurants packed, many locals used to leave town during the music portion of SXSW, but they've scaled it back and the film festival part is actually civilized. 

Didn't know you did bikes. My first bike was a Ducati Monster-- somewhere around 740 cc-- it was fun. There's a custom bike shop down the street that is over the top expensive but they have a bunch of interesting things. I stopped riding a while ago. Have you ever been to the Birmingham, Alabama bike museum and track? It's a pretty amazing facility- if you are into cool bikes, you'd know the guy-- he supplied most of the machinery that was on display some years ago at the Guggenheim Museum. 

If you do come down please let me know. Maybe a home cooked meal and a hang. The track isn't too far out of town but the traffic can be sinister. This was a cowtown 30 years ago. It's now a boom town for tech + UT. It's nice here, too hot though. Feel free to PM me at any time. 

@albertporter Albert's list of TTs and arms that he remembers using/owning kind of cracks me up. So glad to see you contributing here Albert. 

The rest of yas, love you too. :)