what are the thoughts of stand alone super tweeter

Mlsstl, it is my understanding that there is no crossover in the Muratas. I have also seen the frequency response curve on them. There is some output below 15K Hz but very little. As I said, when they only are playing you hear no music. I have tried it here and continue to hear nothing of the public or even of the beat. I have never heard a demonstration of the Townshends only, perhaps they do have something since they much have a crossover as there is a selector switch.

Thg said: "I think that you should have no response below 15K Hz in a supertweeter."

While that is a nice sentiment, it is highly unlikely.

The Murata is rather vague about its crossover mechanism but if its range is given as 15KHz and up, it almost certainly has output below that (just like the other two supertweeters mentioned.) If it is a simple capacitor, the crossover slope would be 6 dB. Mechanical characteristics will likely add to that slope at some lower frequency but we don't know where that is.

If it is a 6 dB slope, that means output could only be down 6 dB at 7500 Hz.

Even if there is some super-high frequency magic taking place, it is pretty easy to see there is also a fair amount of energy being added in frequency bands that are already being serviced by the main speaker.

Back when I worked in a stereo store in the 1970s almost all equipment had tone controls. It was nearly universal for a customer (regardless of system, age, type of music or any other factor) to turn the treble up a notch or two. They just liked the way it affected the sound.

I hardly find it surprising that an add-on tweeter that clearly has output in the 10KHz band (even if the specs indicate it starts higher) is going to be audible.

There is an old saying that when you hear hoofbeats you should usually think of horses before you start looking for zebras. Maybe there is a zebra out there at 40 Khz but I sure see a lot of horses in the clearly audible 10KHz to 15Khz range in all these products.

"There is some research that would suggest that although your ears probably are lucky to hear up to 16K Hz, that high end extension to 100K Hz does register in listener enjoyment of music. "

Correct. There is some research but it all comes from one lab without, to date, independent corroboration.

Years ago at CES Murata demonstrated their supertweeter. Listeners heard a musical passage without them and then again with them. The passage had more air, sparkle, and life with them. As we were all murmuring about how something that has no response below 15K Hz, someone thought to ask to hear the Murata by themselves. The guy running the demonstration said, "You are." We all focused on what we were hearing. There was no music to be heard, only zips, pops, and tizzes. I was very difficult to believe this would add to the sound we had heard. He reran the demonstration and again the Murata's benefits were undeniable. I bought a pair on the spot.

Initially, I had Beauhorn Virtuosos with Lowther single drivers. The Muratas did wonders with them. When I sold them, initially I just set the Muratas aside thinking that I would probably sell them. Much later after I got adjusted to my Acapella LaCompanellas with frequency response out to 30K Hz. Out of curiosity, I decided to try the Muratas with the LaCompanellas. They had the same benefits with the LaCampanellas! I have repeatedly to find where they add to the sound. I have them outboard of the main speakers and 36" up from the floor.

I have a friend who says the Townshends are better, but I will probably just stick with the Muratas.

There is some research that would suggest that although your ears probably are lucky to hear up to 16K Hz, that high end extension to 100K Hz does register in listener enjoyment of music. I strongly believe this is so.

I think that you should have no response below 15K Hz in a supertweeter.

At my age, approaching big five O, I appreciate a great mid-range much more than a good tweeter. So super tweeter does absolutely nothing to me.

Unless you are young and have 20/20 hearing, IMHO, don't waste time and money on super tweeter.

Mlsstl is correct. In addition, note that, since you cannot hear above 20KHz, the interactions he describes will be the dominant effects of adding on the supertweeter.

Kal

One thing to keep in mind with any add-on supertweeter that was not designed as part of a speaker system is that the transition between the main speaker and the super-tweeter is going to be widely variable.

The Townshend, for example, says its range is 20KHz and up with a -3dB point at 12KHz.

The Tannoy (depends on model) has a third order crossover starting at 14KHz. That means it'll be 18 dB down at 7KHz but there is still a lot of energy output below 14KHz as it comes up to crossover frequency.

In both cases, the tweeters have significant output in the range where many main speakers already have significantly flat output by themselves.

If coupled with a speaker with significant high frequency energy, you would have a rising frequency response above 10 or 12KHz. If coupled with a speaker with dropoff in highest octave, you couple have a dip in the high response with the frequency response then rising above the dip.

What is simply a roll of the dice is whether your resulting high frequency response bears any resemblance at all to a uniform, smooth output. Most serious speaker companies put a tremendous amount of effort into getting a seamless transition between drivers. With an add-on tweeter, that simply isn't going to happen unless by sheer accident.

While the idea of extending a speaker's high frequencies is admirable in theory, this seems to be a bit of "throw a spit wad and see if it sticks" approach. I find it interesting that basic preamp tone controls have long since been banished from high end equipment but audiophiles have found all manner of new ways to tinker with tone balance through products such as this and others.

The net result is that you can only try a unit and see if you like it. Just don't get the idea that you are necessarily improving the "accuracy" of your high end response. ;-)

Pro: more air and space, greater definition throughout the frequency range, and cleaner transient snap.

Cons: makes your speaker a tougher load (some companies deny it but I think there is no physical way around it), potentially goofy look.

Hifi+ has reviewed a couple of them - the Townshend and the Tannoy. They couldn't explain it technically but their impact was obvious. They loved both and deemed them a highly worthwhile purchase no matter what speakers you use.

Arthur