LOL, I'll bet I gotcha on that Title! ;) BTW, I put this thread under "Tech Talk" category as it involves the system physically, not tangentially.
More seriously, two question survey:
1. Do you think designer fuses are A) a Gift to audiophiles, or B) Snake Oil
2. Have you ever tried them? Yes or No
In the tradition of such questions on Agon, I'll weigh in as we go along... Feel free to discuss and rant all you wish, but I would like to see clear answers to the questions. :)
Firstly, to say someone needs to calm down (which is what "wrapped too tightly" implies) is not name calling. You’re jumping at the first opportunity to strike back. Calm down.
Secondly, you’ve implied that we who hear differences in fuses are delusional, that we hear things, that we’re dishonest with ourselves, that our intent is to mislead, etc.
Look in the mirror and think twice about casting that stone.
Oh, and I was informed that I had a post removed, probably because it was a bit too snarky. To be honest, I can’t locate it. It isn’t all one sided so as to develop a persecution complex.
Lota posts getting removed. Another fuse "snake oil" thread making people question the validity of what’s being said, causing conflict between obvious scientific theory and subjective hearsay.
Kosst Sorry but I do not believe that anybody who buys and uses an aftermarket fuse and enjoys what they hear has ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to prove to you or anybody else here!
The majority of these fuse threads are based on users listening experience not practical science 101, if you demand science just go and email the manufacturers and harass them not the users on these threads. In short we don't owe you a bean!
@nonoise No, no, no, son. When you go out into the world and make stupid statements with no basis in reality, it's not up to the world to prove a negative. It's up to the claimant to prove the positive. That's how it works in science and the law. Your inverted thinking and shirking of your responsibility is repugnant. If your claim is you're experiencing a purely psychological phenomenon, say so and stick to it. If there's some science behind it, it's on you to prove it, and until you do, the doubters are on solid ground questioning you, your observations, and your honesty.
You're wrapped way too tightly costco.
Empirically experienced events are a part of science.
I'm not asking anyone to prove anything as I'm content to know what I hear. It's only those who carp on about it that need to try it for themselves, like you. Otherwise, how will you truly know? Falling back on a manual just won't cut it. Nor does hiding behind an engineer's skirt since we've all discovered that there are engineers who've heard improvements with fuses but can't explain it.
"Science and Law". Are you some kind of magistrate? A leading authority? Be still my beating heart.
To claim it's a purely psychological phenomenon doesn't help your position. You're just throwing words around, unless you're saying you can feel or sense it from afar. You weren't here when I installed the fuses, where you? Do you do remote viewing?
As for the doubters, the ground is getting shakier and shakier the longer this thread continues. It's going to be fun to see them go to earth once they hear it for themselves. Or should I say, if they ever try it. Most won't because this is their oxygen.
medwardo I’ve used the Black SR fuses in most of my electronics for a year or two.
They aren’t either a gift or snake oil, but somewhere in between.
Some sound improvement, but with 6 fuses in my amp, it’s almost a grand to outfit it...not sure that the improvement was worth a grand in retrospect.
My amp blew a fuse...which one(s)?...I don’t know...I can’t see the filament in the SR fuses.
Wasn’t willing to swap one fuse in and out to troubleshoot as I have to disconnect cables, pull the amp from the rack, take the bottom & top of my amp off to do that...and doing that 6 times or more, right...
>>>>I bet establishing the proper orientation of all six fuses was a bear. 🐻
I've used the Black SR fuses in most of my electronics for a year or two.
They aren't either a gift or snake oil, but somewhere in between.
Some sound improvement, but with 6 fuses in my amp, it's almost a grand to outfit it...not sure that the improvement was worth a grand in retrospect.
My amp blew a fuse...which one(s)?...I don't know...I can't see the filament in the SR fuses.
Wasn't willing to swap one fuse in and out to troubleshoot as I have to disconnect cables, pull the amp from the rack, take the bottom & top of my amp off to do that...and doing that 6 times or more, right...
So, I just replaced them all with clear glass fuses. The sound? Not as "organic" as with the SR fuses, perhaps, but not all that different.
I like the sound improvement of SR fuses, but the usability/practicality leaves a bit to be desired.
I'll leave the SR fuses in the other equipment, but I won't be buying any more of them.
nonoise - Why aren’t you trolling all the other threads on the above mentioned gear and having at it?
To begin with, I’m not trolling. In any case, if you consider my replies trolling, that is your business. Unfortunately, site "rules" do not allow me to respond adequately to your question. Suffice it to say, however, that the U.S. is a great place to visit in the summertime.
uberwaltz - What more requirements does a buyer and user of an aftermarket fuse NEED than that they can hear a difference?
Nothing, unless you're not looking to be as honest with yourself as you could otherwise be.
uberwaltz - Sorry but I listen to music not science.
No apology necessary. Listening to music is more than many others have professed though. Good for you. Keep in mind I've offered you music, and I have yet to read/hear back from you.
What more requirements does a buyer and user of an aftermarket fuse NEED than that they can hear a difference? Even if it is a small difference then $60 to $200 is a very small price for a worthwhile tweak. It is up to the individual if they feel it was worthwhile. Sorry but I listen to music not science
Look, I’m truly sorry if my written replies offend you in any way.
Have you considered that "Ain’t nobody messin’ with you but you"?
Huh? I’m not the slightest bit offended by you. If offense was your objective, it’s unfortunate that you’ve been disappointed. Perhaps it’s time for you to be honest with yourself, gdhal.
Yikes! Talking of impossible. My everyday paying job, you know as opposed to running round in ever decreasing circles here, involves doing the mathematically impossible every single minute of every single day. Seriously. Note I stated mathematically impossible. Theory can sometimes be bent a little. I will not bore anybody with the details but it is one reason I take a lot of this stuff with a very open mind.
I don't think, for a moment, that you over did things back in the days but just enjoy talking in circles, contradicting yourself, raising trolling to an art form.
^Well, I thought I made it clear that I'm not demanding anything
Then why state that it behooves someone to do so?
Hearing a difference when an ordinary fuse/wire is reversed falls into the category of impossible, by my definition
Good for you. We think otherwise.
And, by your own statements, I don't need to submit any proof what-so-ever that it is in fact impossible
Goose and gander. If you really believe that, then stop saying we have a duty to.
Just pointing out that one should be honest *with themselves*
That's flat out insulting and it's about time you stop with this moral high ground of yours, implying we're not being honest with ourselves. It's so passive-aggressive and possibly, a projection on your part.
"I’m going to do something I don’t usually do and that’s help out the pseudo skeptics."
Holy crap Geoff, is it Backwards Day? Since you are being charitable with your knowledge today, can you please explain what is this "careful testing"? Is this the opposite of "reckless testing"? Does one need to conduct "careful testing" when evaluating products that,
"do affect the sound but not in the conventional sense, as they do not affect the audio signal anywhere"
There is obviously a lot involved with this audio stuff....
psychological effects placebo effects expectation bias tricks of the mind psyching yourself out pseudo skeptic line conscious effects subconscious influences physical effects
Will tomorrow’s lesson include metaphysical effects? What if I just want to turn on my stereo and listen?
^Well, I thought I made it clear that I'm not demanding anything (i.e. no one owes me any proof, etc.) to support the impossible. Hearing a difference when an ordinary fuse/wire is reversed falls into the category of impossible, by my definition. And, by your own statements, I don't need to submit any proof what-so-ever that it is in fact impossible.
Just pointing out that one should be honest *with themselves*. If you truly believe and are content with "I hear a difference" irrespective of anything else, then more power to you. Besides, it's your money.
To behoove is to state
that it is the responsibility or duty for a person to do something.
That is flat out ridiculous on it's face. No one owes you anything save
for relating what they hear(d).
If you doubt it, it is your responsibility to test it for yourself, which you consistently refuse to do.
Exactly. It is no more complicated than that. It is just such a puzzle that those who claim the mantel of science resist conducting themselves a valid test to substantiate their claims, or to even discuss here how such a test might be conducted. It's difficult for me to imagine it's for any reason other than to be argumentative.
gdhal
Absolutely.
This is why it behooves those who claim to hear an improvement when an
ordinary fuse/wire is reversed to be honest with themselves and do a
blind test (i.e. a test where ones ears are the only sensory organ
involved)
I think those reporting what they hear are being completely honest. They have no obligation to provide additional substantiation to you at all. You can continue to repeat your demands that others do such testing, but it's pretty clear they're not going to comply. Of course, you're free to conduct your own tests. If you do, please share the protocol and results here. it could be part of what you call being honest.
There are those who think others "owe" them something. In your case, gdhal, you insist others owe you some kind of "proof" that you deem acceptable. It's odd that you think that way, rather than simply just use your judgment to dismiss claims you find dubious.
No, it does not behoove anyone to do any such thing. To behoove is to state that it is the responsibility or duty for a person to do something. That is flat out ridiculous on it's face. No one owes you anything save for relating what they hear(d).
If you doubt it, it is your responsibility to test it for yourself, which you consistently refuse to do.
Absolutely. This is why it behooves those who claim to hear an improvement when an ordinary fuse/wire is reversed to be honest with themselves and do a blind test (i.e. a test where ones ears are the only sensory organ involved). 👂
There is such a thing as placebo effect, probably most applicable to medical applications rather than audio, but I give you that. There is such a thing as expectation bias, also. I’ll grant you that ... those “psychological” effects can be relatively easily eliminated by careful testing
Absolutely 100 percent agreed. It is stunning that those who claim science is on their side don’t also agree.
So, it’s illogical to use those effects to explain ALL positive results which is the standard pseudo skeptic line.
It’s fair to question positive results. It’s even fair to question all of the positive results. But to reject all such reports based solely on belief and in the absence of any testing is just silly, and certainly not scientific. This is very basic science.
I’m going to do something I don’t usually do and that’s help out the pseudo skeptics. There is such a thing as placebo effect, probably most applicable to medical applications rather than audio, but I give you that. There is such a thing as expectation bias, also. I’ll grant you that. And the variations like reverse expectation bias. However, those “psychological” effects can be relatively easily eliminated by careful testing. So, it’s illogical to use those effects to explain ALL positive results which is the standard pseudo skeptic line. i should also point out those “psychological effects” - placebo and expectation bias - are essentially tricks of the mind, or “psyching yourself out.” I.s., they are conscious effects!
As opposed to more interesting and more difficult to explain “psychological effects” evident in Peter Belt products like Silver Rainbow Foil and Cream Electret. Those two audio products operate on a different “psychological level” than placebo effect or expectation bias. They do affect the sound but not in the conventional sense, as they do not affect the audio signal anywhere, they are not dampers or RFI inhibitors, or have any affect on wiring or cabling anywhere in the room. Most importantly, the subconscious influence of the Peter Belt products, unlike placebo and expectation bias, can’t (repeat can’t) be eliminated by careful testing. They are subconscious and or physical. So they must be real.
I hate to judge too quickly but it appears those who believe in and sell voodoo are acting out on their delusional tendencies by having to have the last word. 😆
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