volume vs presence

I know exactly what you're talking about.., to feel involved with the music you have to crank it up.

I live in a Condo, and I had the same problem when I switched from a floor-standing speaker (Alon IV) with deep bass to stand-mounted monitors (Sonus Faber) and Sub (Rel Storm). I had to blast the monitors to allow it to sound great, and then my neighboor started complaining that it was too loud and I would have to agree that she was right. I now have larger floor standing speakers (Kharma) without a sub, and I can enjoy the music at normal levels and it even sounds great at low levels at night, and my neighboor hasn't ever complained again.

I would have to agree with Mulveling, that you need larger floor-standing speakers to better fill the room with a wall of sound. I would recommend something that at least goes down to 30-35Hz.

Rich

Jaffa777,

I forgot to ask you.., How large is your room?

Rich

Hi Jaffa,

That is a decent size room that you have. I would have to believe that a speaker that goes down to about 28-30hz, will suffice.

You could certainly get "too big" and that won't be good either. The goal should be to get the right sized speaker for your room.

You mentioned that you want a more percussive attack. This is usually in the Bass region 60Hz-250Hz, not the Sub-Bass region 20Hz-60Hz. I feel that your Monitor and Subwoofer won't solve this problem, because your monitor isn't producing enough punch in the bass region and your subwoofer can't reach high enough into the bass region either. I actually prefer the sound of a Floor-Standing speaker with a Subwoofer, than a Monitor with a Subwoofer.

I believe that you need a Floor-Standing Speaker with at least 3 drivers (Woofer, Midrange, and Tweeter). This way the woofer can handle the bass region and the midrange can handle it's region without being pushed harder to perform in the bass region. A Floor-Stander with 4 drivers would also work.., but then you may have two smaller, faster woofers, one midrange, and one tweeter. Since you like a fast percussive sound, I would think that 2 smaller 170mm woofers, instead of one larger 250mm woofer, may be more to your liking.

Although, I have never listened to the PMC PB1i, I did check them out online and I think you're on the right track with that type of speaker design. The rest is up to you my friend...

Good Luck,
Rich

You know..., I thought that we had two different questions here; but now I'm not so sure, I thought one was presence and the other was percussive attack. Presence sometimes means different things to different people. To me it means that the Vocalists or Instruments sound like they are in the room with you, or you are there with them. I believe this to be anywhere in the 2kHz-6kHz, but commonly referred to as the 2kHz-4kHz range as Cdc suggests.

I took Percussive Attack to mean; leading edge transient attack of the Music, such as; Rhythm Section, Bass Guitar, Kick Drum, and Lower Brass or generally speaking the Bass Region, 60Hz-250Hz. However, these Instruments' Harmonics, may also extend into the presence range.

So, I would like to ask the OP; Are you looking for "More Liveness (or presence)? or, Are you looking for a better rhythm section, with a more solid foundation and drive to the Music, that has more energy with greater Dynamics? or, Do You Want It All.....?

One thing I can tell you is that a Larger Speaker will definitely fill your room better, without destroying your hearing.

Rich

"Hey Rich, I was thinking about what I was missing, and its the intial attack of the front, upwards curve of the sound. I can hear the guitar being played, but I want to feel the pluck on the string before the note sounds. The twang and percussive effect of the double bass player digging into a string."

Hi Jaffa,

Absolutely, that's a good goal, and just to summarize; your goal was to feel and enjoy the Music better, at normal listening levels without turning up the volume excessively high. You said your room was 5 meters x 6 meters which is equal to 16.5 Ft. x 19.8 Ft., which is a pretty decent sized listening room. I know that you would also like to; feel the attack and pluck of the Guitar, the thwack of the Drums, and the twang of the Double Bass, as you so eloquently stated above.

Well, just to put some of this into perspective for you, because there is certainly a lot of good information here, that can be very overwhelming for a new comer. You could certainly buy cables, and power cords, and room treatments and it all helps tremendously, and I mean that sincerely..., it really does and I have all of it as well. Even buying larger amps will primarily allow you to make it louder, and yes there is also the usual tighter bass, and other audiophile benefits, etc, etc..

If I buy a new suit, I may feel and look better, but I'm not suddenly going to become 6.5 Ft. tall

So..., to get the sound that you want, in that size room, you have to move a lot of air and excite the air in the room.

I understand that you are using very good, but "Small Studio Monitor Speakers."

As far as I know, there's are only a few ways to accomplish your goals:

1) Turn the volume all the way up, as you're doing, to raise the SPL in the room until it's uncomfortable.

2) Add one Subwoofer and introduce more problems and then we could start another thread on that one.

3) Buy two subwoofers and pray.

4) Add a center channel speaker, surround speakers, a processor, equalizer, more power cords, clutter up the room more and call it a Home Theater.

5) Move your Monitors into a smaller room in the house and enjoy them there.

6) Buy Larger Floor-Standing Speakers that moves more air at a lower volume, so that you may appreciate; a more involving transient attack of the leading instruments, without destroying that silky smooth sound that you so enjoy.

Oh, one more thing...., if you buy larger speakers, then you may need larger amps, and better cables, and fatter power cords, and more accessories, and max out your credit and take out a loan, and then, and only then, are you an Audiophile...

Now, my friend..., you really do have a lot of difficult decisions to make ; )

Enjoy and Happy Listening,
Rich