Pioneer Exclusive P3/P3a and GT 2000 series nothing alike as Dover said. P3/P3a is an exceptional design.
GT 2000 optional accessory suspension:
Vintage Japanese DD Consult and Suggestions Please
A little over five years ago, I worked with Chris Harban at Woodsong Audio to craft a bespoke Garrard 301 for me and my my vinyl collection. I had previously had a Dual of some model followed by a Thorens TD 160 with a nice Ortofon Black MM cart. The 301 was completely restored featuring a heavy mahogany plinth, Ortofon AS 309S tonearm, and Ortofon SPU head. I have completely blown away with how this table has sounded and looked. The sound was huge, rich, and detailed...everything that I heard that idle drives from this era should sound.
Unfortunately, some family health matters have forced me to liquidate some much revered audio gear, and recently placed my Garrard 301 up for sale. I do not wish to be without a way to continue to enjoy my collection and would somehow like to come as close to the performance of the 301 for around $2500 or so.
My considerations (thus far)for this change are as follows,
Denon DP80
Technics SP10 Mk 2 or 3
Technics SL 1000 Mk 2
Luxman PD 444
As you can see, I am curious about the more vintage looks and sound of the direct drives coming out of Japan, and am hoping to glean from this audience which of these units may provide me with the same (or as close to)level of enjoyment that my 301 has done. Thoughts on tonearm and MC cartridges pairings with each would be helpful.
I am not really considering anything belt driven at this time for whatever reason, or a deck that veers away from a traditional turntable aesthetic.
If it helps, the rest of the signal chain is as follows.
Aric Audio Motherlode preamp
Manley Steelhead phono pre
Aric Audio Transcend EL 34 push/pull amp
Klipsch Forte iv speakers.
I am grateful in advance for your thoughts on this matter.
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My own observations remain, there are similarities, the statement that was made remains unchanged. "The P3 and GT 2000 Models share a similarity in their design where the Motor / Stator / Bearing Housing are embedded into a Chassis / Plinth." I'm sure a list that is produced, that points out where there are differences between the Two Models will be quite long. The Newest Design used for a TT, that I have adopted also mimics the methodology for the mounting of the Mechanical Parts, which is also seen either on the P3 or the GT 2000. The earlier design and the methodology for the Mounting of the Mechanical Parts is quite changed. There is no longer in use, a Purpose Produced Chassis that has the mechanical parts attached, which is then seated upon a Purpose Produced Plinth, which over time become available in a variety of designs . There is a merged Chassis / Plinth design that has the Mechanical Parts embedded into the material used. In relation to Suspension Support, I use a Panzerholz Sub Plinth, which is separated from the Chassis / Plinth using Solid Tech 'Feet of Silence' which Superseded the usage of AT 616 Footers for TT Duties. As stated, there are assessments to be undertaken, but not to be rushed into, where the intention is to get an improved understanding of where the merits of the design are showing their strengths. |
When expressing an Interest in Vintage Japanese DD TT's, there are two ways to observe them, which are loosely described below: 1, Is the observation through 'Rose Tinted Glasses' where the assembled product with a unknown hours of usage life of close on 50 Years is not considered. An individual is somehow missing / avoiding what a 50ish Years in the real world can mean for a TT's Electronics and Mechanical Parts. 2, The Link will show an individual a good insight into what is being bought into, the Link is representative of most Vintage DD TT's to be seen on a Shortlist. Mechanical Parts are limited and the Electronic Parts are quite substantial and quite complex. Mechanical Parts can have had way too many rotations where critical parts are functioning in a non ideal environment, where a minimum negative effect developed is that the axis of the Spindle may not run true, creating a eccentric rotation and speed fluctuation. Furthering regular usage of a TT with an eccentric rotation in a non ideal environment can lead to excessive wear on a sacrificial part such as a Bush. The excessive wear of a Bush/Bushes can result with a scribing showing on other Sacrificial Parts or even worse, scribing can show on parts that should be a Polished Finish, where scribing that has developed is most likely caused by metal particulate from worn Bushes being encountered in a very dry shaft with all signs of Factory applied lubricant long long dried up or leached from the Bearing Housing the Bearing Housing many many years passed. Good Luck with the Electronics being Top Drawer, I only know Specialists who can comment on this when they have the TT on their Workbench. The reality for quite few TT owners of all types from this period is commonly as follows: I bought a Vintage TT, I Powered on and it rotated, Eureka, I have a perfect TT. I'm looking for the Perfect Tonearm for my TT, after a Hum and Ha, I've just bought a TA at £2K - £3K - 4K for my Perfectly Working Vintage TT. I'm now looking for a Cartridge to mount on my TA to get the best out of my Perfect Vintage TT. I am now the proud owner of a £2K - £3K - £4K Cartridge. My take is use others known for their knowledge on a particular TT, to inform if the Vintage TT is a Perfect TT. Once this is a done deal, spend however one wants on how the other ancillaries are chosen to be used with the TT. http://amp8.com/amp-etc/record/denon/dp-80-3.htm For the record, all owned TT's are from a Vintage Period and ones Vintage DD ones used daily are brought to a fine fettle, by an individual who knows the Brands very very well and are reputed for their work undertaken. Both Bearing Condition and Overhaul and Electronics Function are addressed when on the Workbench. The extra outlay for the TT's is a monies very very well spent. |
@laaudionut I'm chiming in late here. Lots of good choices that you listed and others recommended. IMO any of the tables you listed will sound great and would probably be hard to distinguish given the same tonearm and setup properly. I'll add a few thoughts: - if you don't require two tonearms you should consider the Luxman PD-441. Basically the same TT in a more manageable form factor. Can take most 9-10.5" tonearms - if you can find the appropriate arm boards. Also, the Luxman PD-121/131 is no slouch, although prices for these days seem to be more than I would be willing to pay. - I would add the Teac TN-400 to your list. IMO it's the best DD drive system ever made. - Sony had a couple of Biotracer models that are great decks. They are semi-automatic decks but you can certainly use them manually. If you find one with the electronics still fully functional they are wonderful. - If you want the look of a vintage Japanese DD turntable with improved features you should seriously consider one of the new Technics SL-1200 variants. They are significantly improved over the old models and they are available in a range of price points. I say that because I have owned all of the decks you mentioned at some point over the last 40 years and they are all good. But any vintage deck is either has a problem, even if minor, or will develop a problem at some point. No worries as long as you are willing to pay for repairs and have a good turntable guy on speed dial. - Finally, the Music Hall Stealth is a seriously good turntable. Not Japanese, not classic but seriously good for the price (pre-tariff). |
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