VAC Ren II, VAC Phi, or ARC Ref 3?


Finally, the two cold solder joints in one of my Rowland 7M amplifiers have been fixed. Just a simple 2 minutes soldering job at home, thanks to a kind live phone consult by Jeff himself. Now the system is back purring like a kitten.
Great say you, but. . . the problem is that now I have fallen totally prey to Upgraditis Furiosa, the most pernicious and 'wife threatening' form of Audiophilia Nervosa.
I listen mostly to classical--lots of chamber, vocal, Early Music, Baroque, Romantic, some large orchestra, lots of cello and other strings--on a system that I have lovingly put together over the last 20 years: EAD T1000, AT&T glass C-core glass wire, EAD D7000 Mk. 3, AudioQuest Quartz RCA, Audio Research LS2B, Gutwire XLR, Jeff Rowland 7M monoblocks, Cardas Golden Ref PCs on 7M, Cardas Golden Ref speakerwires, MagnePan 3A speakers.
The sound is sweet, lush, with a large if slightly unfocused soundstage, sometimes slightly veiled, somewhat soft at the bottom, can sound glorious in the midrange, good if not spectacular at the top. Much better at small ensembles than at full orchestra, where the sound stage can collapse and full strings and brass often display signs of brittleness and two-dimensionality. But, so much for self-criticism. Now what to do?
I intend to migrate towards a fully balanced system, with redbook and SACD capability and a tube linestage. I will start upgrading at the source and linestage points. The source will be an Esoteric X-01 or an upcoming APL NWO-1. But in this thread I'd like to discuss options for a new linestage. My requirements are an open and detailed, sweet sound, accurate with minimal coloration, with very good but not necessarily overwhelming macro-dynamics, an excellent three-dimensional and accurate soundstage, superior microdynamics and subtle nuance. The linestage must sound great out of the box--after breakin of course: not only after going through many cycles of NOS tubes musical chairs. All of this from a company with a stellar track record and reputation in quality, dependability and pre/post sale support. I listened to the VTL 7.5 and found it to be too soft. The BAT VK51SE sounded too dark. Then I listened at length to the VAC Ren II, which seems to embody all of my requirements. I have not heard the VAC Phi as yet, but it is in the running by inference. Nor I have listened to the ARC Ref 3, although I intend to: Ref 3 is in the running by reputation.
Suggestions? Opinions? It's your turn guys and girls!
guidocorona

Showing 22 responses by oneobgyn

Hi Ethann

You heard my Ref 3 and it is dead quiet. I am not sure what the issue is with respect to the Ref3 which you auditioned.
I had no hiss even before I had the 4 bypass caps added
Without doubt, the hands down winner is the ARC Ref 3 (which BTW I do own). I have owned pretty much all of the above mentioned preamps but keep coming back to ARC. I owned its predecessor, the Ref 2 Mk ll which I thought was the absolute best and could not be improved upon. Along comes the Ref 3 and it smokes the Ref 2. There is a certain sonic signature about this preamp that just makes my ears stand up and take notice.

Having said all of this, I am auditioning the Lamm L2 in my system tomorrow. Like you I am not terribly keen about only SE inputs as well as no remote and dual mono volume controls. Nonetheless this is a magnificent preamp and I want to hear it in my room with my ML 2.1's. It will be a true a/b vs the ARC. Stay tuned.

The Vac Phi is also terrific BTW.
Interesting thread

Glad to participate

let me preface by saying that the VAC is not only excellent but a work of art to behold. As well Kevin Hayes has some of the best tubes to buy.

Now having gotten that out of the way, yes ARC has made a rolling line change on the Ref3 and I did the upgrade this week. It adds 4 bypass caps and changes the output tube to the 6550C.

Earlier today an Audiogon member brought his Lamm L2 to my house to a/b in my system vs the ARC Ref3. Much to my amazement as well as his the Ref3 toasted the Lamm L2 in every possible way. Needless to say I was shocked. To me there has always been a synergy between the manufacturer of both amps and preamps.I had been waiting anxiously to hear the L2 expecting to hear big things. What a disappointment. The L2 was lean, bright and fatiguing compared to the ARC Ref 3. I was shocked. My recommendation is to have a serious listen to the Ref 3. Again it is the synergy of the system that makes it work. Bear in mind to all that Vladimir is aware of theshortcomings of the L2 and is working on his L3 which I understand will be available later this year.
I still maintain, the ARC Ref 3 wins hands down. It is just no contest especially after the addition of the bypass caps and switching the output tube to a 6550C
Guido

Trust me when I tell you that you made the correct decision. You will love this preamp
The interesting thing about every piece of ARC gear that I have ever owned is that out of the box it sounds absolutely terrific and then after a few hours it becomes very muddy until it has been broken in. I do believe all of my ARC gear (and I have owned a lot of it) always sounded better after extensive break in.
"Oneobgyn - What makes you so sure there "will always be upgrades to the REF 3"? Indeed, there will be upgrades to a point. The REF 4 will come out, then perhaps the 3 will be dead-ended like the 2 was. We shall see.

I think that you answered your own question. There will be upgrades to a point and then the Ref4
well I am with Guido on this one and, although the other preamps mentioned are truly exceptional I will bet $$$ that Guido finds audio nirvana here
well Guido

Thankfully I have convinced you about the ARC Ref 3.

Now let's get on and do some other schooling on power cords. I would like you to audition the Nordost Valhalla against your Shunyata PC's and then come on back for further discussion. I have used all of the one's you have described and would not have thought there could be anything better until I tried Valhalla. The rest is history.
No need as I owned them before my Valhalla PC's

Bear in mind that a "system" is a synergy of all of its parts and in my system and for my ears Valhalla PC's were enchanting
"I think commenting on brands, the reviews of brands, and the rooms in context is well within subject material that should be considered."


Keith

I agree with you completely. The room is always an integral part if not "THE" most integral part of any system.

Guido...IMO I think (saddly) that your comment was somewhat out of line
Guido

Don't be discouraged. The unit will just not sound good until at least 100 hours of use.

The nice feature about the Ref 3 is that you push a button on the remote and it will tell you how many hours on the tubes.
"In my experience it is common for a component to sound pretty good out of the box for the first few hours and then sound bad for quite a while, gradually improving until broken in. Guidocorona's experience demonstrates that, and I don't think it should reflect badly upon the manufacturer, because components are voiced to sound as expected once broken in"

Precisely my point. Every Audio Research component that I have ever owned sounded great out of the box and then sounded muddied for the next 100 or so hours when the magic occurred.
I use Balanced interconnects and never leave mine on 24/7 (for no good reason)
Tvad

If owners have unbalanced SE sources then IMO it only stands to reason that they would use a SE input. To use a SE to XLR adaptor would provide absolutely no sonic benefit and would be a waste of money to buy the adaptors...at least that is how I see it.

I have no unbalanced sources. Having said that I use balanced outputs from my Ref3 to my Lamm ML2.1 (there are both SE and XLR inputs to the Lamm) but the XLR input is pseudobalanced as Vladimir does not believe in true balanced in any of his components
the tube timer should tell him that (assuming it has or has not ever been reset)