Using tube amp with electrostatic speakers.

Hi Lewm,

I'm also interested in the transformer mod - I'm using first gen VTL MB450s for my M1 panels, so I'm interested in the transformer mod for the same reasons you mention in the thread of increased efficiency and of course improved sound. I would really like to hear everything my system can offer without over taxing my amps, with flexibility to try OTL or lower powered tube amps in the future. I sold my 160w joule electra amps because they were struggling with the panels.

I hadn't realized that plitron offered a suitable step up - do you have any tips to install them into the backplates? Im looking forward  to doing this in the new year.

Happy Holidays,

Andy 

@jazzdude99  Andy, If you want to get an idea of what the Sound Labs can do with the new backplate, there is a resistor that can be removed from the old toroidal backplate that gets you about 90% of the way there.

The resistor is usually composed of a bunch in series/parallel to get the wattage up- the result is a resistor with a 200 watt rating. Think about how much amplifier power is being absorbed to need to be rated that high to survive!

Anyway, in the older units that resistor can be removed and an instant improvement is heard with any amp and the speaker is easier to drive. Our customers feedback is that they can do with our MA-1 (140 watts) what used to take a set of MA-2s (220 watts) before. Its more than just an efficiency improvement, its also a load that is a lot easier for any amp. 

That's brilliant - thank you Ralph! I'll try this weekend.

Regards,

Andy

Ralph, Are you referring to the resistor "R" in the RC network?  I totally agree that R is a big problem in the original design, but if you remove it entirely, that would make a dramatic change in the crossover point.  For the example given above where 10 ohms and 36uF values of R and C give you a X-over point of ~440 Hz, removing the R entirely would give you a high pass -3db point at ~4400 Hz.  This would leave a big gaping hole in the midrange, because the bass transformer does not work much above 2kHz, based on my earlier measurements of my speaker.  I am sure you are aware of all this, which is why I think I might be misunderstanding the nature of your recommendation.  You could remove R and preserve the x-over point, if you add more C, in this example.  I would suggest increasing the value of R so that less current flows through it and the crossover point is thereby lowered to a frequency more in the bass range.  This needs to be done with caution because of the limitations of the toroid itself, which we don't really know for sure (because SL is a bit secretive in this regard).  But I bet you could go to 20 ohms, giving a hi-pass at 220 Hz (assuming 36uF of capacitance).  That's actually what I thought SL was doing with their new toroid, lowering the hi-pass X-over point.

Jazzdude, Plitron do (or did) make a "full-range" ESL step-up toroid with a 1:75 ratio, and in theory this would work.  However, bear in mind that I cannot personally say I have tried it.  There are also other companies that make EI type transformers with a step-up in the needed range (1:75 up to 1:90).  The Plitron looks to be pretty robust, and it would be my choice, if I was starting from scratch, is all I meant to say.  If you go to some other brand and to an EI type, just be sure to pick a "big" substantial transformer that is rated for full-range use.  Some of the aftermarket ESL transformers look like toys and would not be up to the job.

So, if you try the Plitron, I wondered whether it could mount on the very same bracket used to mount the existing toroid.  If the diameter is too large for it to fit in that bracket, probably the bracket can be modified to accommodate a larger diameter toroid.  This is what I was thinking.

Thanks for the info Lewm!

Andy