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Using a receiver as a pre-amp...many questions

I have totem sttaf (8ohm, 88db sensitivity) l+r, a totem tribe II (6ohm,88db sensitivity) as center, and the totem storm sub. I use the system for both movies/tv and l+r and sub for music...music being the most important to me soundwise. My receiver is an integra 40.3. Ok so here come the questions...

In order to have the system sound good for anything (movies/tv or music) I feel like I have to turn the receiver up too high (around 68-75 out of 100)...otherwise the sound is flat/boring. Do people agree that this is a problem, or I should just turn it up and be happy? Keep in mind that once I do turn it up I am very happy with the sound it produces...overall I like what I have.

What I am thinking about doing is buying three red dragon audio m500 monoblock amps and connecting from the receiver to the amps. Should I expect this to improve the sound at lower levels, or the high volume need is just a function of the way my speakers work and nothing different will happen?

Another option I am thinking about is buying a two channel amp (I am thinking of tube hybrid) to connect to receiver, and using it to power just the l+r speakers to get possible improvement there.

Ultimately I would like to get away from the receiver altogether as everything I read says that a real pre-amp and amp improves sound dramatically...however all of my connections are HDMI (computer music, movies, and cable) and until someone starts making an HDMI dac then I think I am stuck with the receiver.

Sorry for so many questions but as you can likely tell I am a rather new audio person and need advise. Any comments on the questions above would be great...also setup suggestions that I may not have thought of would also help.
jpg1975

Showing 7 responses by bdgregory

bdgregory
1,725 posts
 
@Bdgregory do you think a stand alone hometheater pre-amp (for example emotiva umc-200) would be any better with regard to the issue I am experiencing?
the short answer is maybe. I've tried multiple HT Receivers, and multiple Stand alone Pre/Pro's. The receivers I tried were all modest budget units and some were good, most bad. The stand alone units (Lexicon, Meridian, Proceed, B&K) were all good to excellent, but none of them compare to a quality analog stereo preamp when it comes to music play, so I have a separate Stereo preamp I use for music only. I like the Lexicon best for HT/Video.

As for the beaks - I really don't notice any sonic benefits, but like the way they look ;-)
bdgregory
1,725 posts
 
In order to have the system sound good for anything (movies/tv or music) I feel like I have to turn the receiver up too high (around 68-75 out of 100)...otherwise the sound is flat/boring. Do people agree that this is a problem, or I should just turn it up and be happy? Keep in mind that once I do turn it up I am very happy with the sound it produces...overall I like what I have.
I'm not sure I would count on a new amp solving your volume setting issue. This is likely in the processor section - most pre/pro's have less gain/sensitivity than analog preamps in my experience. It's possible that external amps will give improvement, but you still may have your volume set at 70 before you're happy. I would also add that I find Receivers have preamp sections that are equally suspect as the power amp sections. Though this is a generalization made with no experience with your receiver. YMMV
bdgregory
1,725 posts
 
Jpg1975 - I took another look at your original post, and if you were thinking of buying those red dragon audio m500's - that's $2400 - far more budget than you will need to get a pretty nice 2 channel music rig to run in parallel with you HT rig. Here's what I suggest - find a really nice *USED* integrated amp. There are probably bunches available that can bought for ~$1000-$1500 (Musical Fidelity makes some nice ones). Set the integrated up to power your Sttaf's in stereo mode. Then connect your integra to the integrated in "passthru" mode, such that when you are listening to HT, your integrated amp powers your mains (Sttafs), and your integra powers your center channel. BTW - I would add some rear speakers if I were you - they can also be powered by your integra. I have a pair of Sttafs and with a good quality 120+/- watt amp they are fantastic for a music only system.

If you look at my system page you will see how my Home theater is set up this way.
bdgregory
1,725 posts
 
Jpg1975 - I took another look at your original post, and if you were thinking of buying those red dragon audio m500's - that's $2400 - far more budget than you will need to get a pretty nice 2 channel music rig to run in parallel with you HT rig. Here's what I suggest - find a really nice *USED* integrated amp. There are probably bunches available that can bought for $1000 (Musical Fidelity makes some nice ones). Set the integrated up to power your Sttaf's in stereo mode. Then connect your integra to the integrated in "passthru" mode, such that when you are listening to HT, your integrated amp powers your mains (Sttafs), and your integra powers your center channel. BTW - I would add some rear speakers if I were you - they can also be powered by your integra. I have a pair of Sttafs and with a good quality 120+/- watt amp they are fantastic for a music only system.

If you look at my system page you will see how my Home theater is set up this way.
bdgregory
1,725 posts
 
one possibility for your music sources is to use your Integra as a DAC (ie leave them connected to the integra via HDMI), and take an analog connection from a "tape out" (assuming you have one) to the analog input of your integrated. Otherwise get an outboard DAC as Tls49 said. I would also imagine that your computer has an analog out, and also your Apple tv, but those are likely to be inferior to a good DAC.
bdgregory
1,725 posts
 
Jp . . . Tls has given good advice above. It did not occur to me that the Integra would not output digital sources to the tape outs. I think the direction you're going now can yield very good music results. The only thing I would add is this - Clearly finding an integrated with HT passthru is the best/most ideal solution, however it's not essential. You can achieve the same results by using any integrated and taking the "main outs" from the Integra into any line level input on the integrated. If set up this way it's necessary to set up your HT outputs with the volume level on the integrated set at a level you can repeat. For example, set the volume on the integrated at 12:00 when caligrating your HT settings. Then every time you use your HT, you set the integrated at 12:00, then your Integra volume level controls loudness adjustments as you desire.

One other option for you that can yield even better music performance and flexibility is to get separate preamp and power amp rather than an integrated. Many preamps have HT passthru. The downside of this option is it's likely to cost more, and it takes up more space.
bdgregory
1,725 posts
 
It's true that ht passthru is a significant advantage. While I wouldn't describe the volume matching as a pain, it's a serious inconvenience, or semi risky. When I used my Musical Fidelity preamp for HT PT, I set the volume knob at 12:00 which is the only location that was stupid simple to replicate. It worked great, and took no time at all to set up; However, when I switched back to Music - that setting was too loud, so I always needed to remember to change before cueing up music - something I always worried about forgetting to do.

As for Hybrid amps - I'm not familiar with any. One way to get a hybrid is to go separates like I do. I have a tube preamp and SS power amps. The thing I like about my setup is my music preamp isn't even powered on when I'm in HT mode. Some preamps accommodate this, and some need to be powered on (which isn't a big deal as preamps consume very little power when not processing.

You may want to post another thread with a title something like "seeking Hybrid Integrated Amp recommendations". You'll need to specify what your budget is since "crazy expensive" means different things to different people.
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