The BBAM embellishes with augmentation well up into the mid-range region. You may find that removing it causes more problems than it solves.
Upgrading path from Merlin VSM black magic
Goal:
I have been tinkering with the idea of upgrading and investing in floor standers that are superior in every way compared to Merlins. What are the Merlin users upgrading to? budget is 25k or under (used market value).
My present system:
I am using my Merlins VSM Black magic with dual BAMs with Coincident tech Frankenstein mono block amps (300B SET) and coincident tech line-state and phono preamp. Whole system is wired with Cardas clear cables. Using EMM XDS-1 and VPI classic turntable. System was built around Merlins. I suppose I might have to pick electronics suitable for the replacement speakers and in that case will build the whole system again. Preferably, I would like to keep the front end electronics/amps/pre-amp etc.
My music taste:
I listen mostly Jazz, Classical and vocals.
My room:
I had Merlins setup in 12x16x8 room which was fully treated. I have since moved to a larger-ish space 15' x 21' x 9'. The room is not treated yet but would be fully treated with absorption panels/diffusors etc in the near future. I setup speakers with ears and with RoomEq software.
Why not Merlins .. ??
I have thoroughly enjoyed Merlins but sometime feel it can sound a little thin and won't reach the lowest bass. Larger sound stage is desired. Full scale classical music can have better depth, width and weight. I have been using various versions of Merlins since 2009 and have the last version produced (Black magic) with dual BAMs. I have purchased two Funk Audio subwoofers that I have not integrated with the system yet. Merlin is not very subwoofer friendly anyways.
What I am looking for:
Ideal speakers would get from "Merlin" its neutral, resolving, transparent, low distortion, dynamic character. On top would also deliver fuller sound (top to bottom), be a full range down to 20Hz, provide bigger sound stage and has a more organic / relaxing sound (..better emotional connectivity). Speakers should be tube friendly, (preferably SET or OTL).
Brands:
There are simply too many out there. These brands come to mind: dynaudio, magico, sonus-faber, mbl, B&W, wilson audio, rockport, jm-labs, dunlavy, wilson benesch. I am sure someone who has owned Merlins and made a move can give their input. Even a short list to audition would be helpful. I am based out of Orlando area. Would be great If any local member has a system that they can allow me to audition.
Past experience:
Other notable speakers I have owned in past include original Flocal Utopias (mezzo to grand Utopia), B&W nautilus series, Quad 989 among others. Yesterday's nautilus 800, 802 were power hungry and sounded boxy. This may not be the case with the newer models. I feel like I am out of touch with what is out there. Have been out of market for long.
Thanks.
I have been tinkering with the idea of upgrading and investing in floor standers that are superior in every way compared to Merlins. What are the Merlin users upgrading to? budget is 25k or under (used market value).
My present system:
I am using my Merlins VSM Black magic with dual BAMs with Coincident tech Frankenstein mono block amps (300B SET) and coincident tech line-state and phono preamp. Whole system is wired with Cardas clear cables. Using EMM XDS-1 and VPI classic turntable. System was built around Merlins. I suppose I might have to pick electronics suitable for the replacement speakers and in that case will build the whole system again. Preferably, I would like to keep the front end electronics/amps/pre-amp etc.
My music taste:
I listen mostly Jazz, Classical and vocals.
My room:
I had Merlins setup in 12x16x8 room which was fully treated. I have since moved to a larger-ish space 15' x 21' x 9'. The room is not treated yet but would be fully treated with absorption panels/diffusors etc in the near future. I setup speakers with ears and with RoomEq software.
Why not Merlins .. ??
I have thoroughly enjoyed Merlins but sometime feel it can sound a little thin and won't reach the lowest bass. Larger sound stage is desired. Full scale classical music can have better depth, width and weight. I have been using various versions of Merlins since 2009 and have the last version produced (Black magic) with dual BAMs. I have purchased two Funk Audio subwoofers that I have not integrated with the system yet. Merlin is not very subwoofer friendly anyways.
What I am looking for:
Ideal speakers would get from "Merlin" its neutral, resolving, transparent, low distortion, dynamic character. On top would also deliver fuller sound (top to bottom), be a full range down to 20Hz, provide bigger sound stage and has a more organic / relaxing sound (..better emotional connectivity). Speakers should be tube friendly, (preferably SET or OTL).
Brands:
There are simply too many out there. These brands come to mind: dynaudio, magico, sonus-faber, mbl, B&W, wilson audio, rockport, jm-labs, dunlavy, wilson benesch. I am sure someone who has owned Merlins and made a move can give their input. Even a short list to audition would be helpful. I am based out of Orlando area. Would be great If any local member has a system that they can allow me to audition.
Past experience:
Other notable speakers I have owned in past include original Flocal Utopias (mezzo to grand Utopia), B&W nautilus series, Quad 989 among others. Yesterday's nautilus 800, 802 were power hungry and sounded boxy. This may not be the case with the newer models. I feel like I am out of touch with what is out there. Have been out of market for long.
Thanks.
63 responses Add your response
Thanks brf. I didn't think of removing BAM altogether. This seems simpler than I thought. I will give it a shot. Funk has one of the finest eq curves and digs deep. I never looked into coincident line and I would try to audition them. tubegroover. I could not agree more. Merlins are so perfect in every other way that it makes me nervous to change them and end with a different compromise. Funk seems like a logical path. Thanks. |
I agree with you brf. You can just lose that BAM with a properly integrated sub system, at least I would give it a try. I know this move would have been considered sacrilegious to Bobby. The whole idea to me IS the BAM being cumbersome, adding more in the signal path. It would seem subs might negate that need and give you a fuller more full range presentation without the need to trade "up". You have a fine pair of speakers with the Merlins. Yes they always had their weaknesses but it was due to a 6.5" driver not being sufficient for full range sound regardless of all the tweaking Bobby did to try to overcome that simple fact. They are simply lean in the mid/lower bass and produce little to no info at the lowest frequencies. Believe me for years I tried and was always told I needed to replace this component or update the speakers to get a "fuller more fleshed" out presentation. I came to the simple conclusion you can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Those speakers require a subwoofer that integrates seamlessly. Good luck sstalwar. |
Tubegroover: I bought two Funk audio 18.0 master/slave subwoofers that I have not integrated yet. Overall cumbersome with BAM in the chain. It would be interesting to see if this ends the quest. To audition list: Von Scheikert Coincident Tech line Dynaudio (btw, what amp is preferred?) ..(to be contd..) |
Look at the Dynaudio C2's or C4's. They will give you everything your Merlins give you plus what you are looking for that the Merlins do not. Plus, at least IMO they are gorgeous. I almost went that route myself (I have the Black Magic edition) but couldn't quite persuade myself to pull the +/- $15k - $20k trigger. Based on your new room size the C2"s may do nicely (not sure about full scale orchestral) and can save you a tidy little sum over the C4's. Good luck. |
Have you considered adding a sub or two? It might flesh out the mid/upper bass as well as open up the Soundstage without losing the attributes you like. Certainly worth a try. The Rels were always mentioned with Merlin. I too found the Merlins lean in that area regardless of what I tried, even using a custom tube BAM by David Berning which was a significant improvement over the super BAM. I wish I had tried a sub before moving on, just a thought. |
Okay, the fact that your amps are 20 watts clarifies things. Very cool tweak! Seems more of an issue of room/speaker interface. Merlins are great speakers for smaller rooms, but in my experience, and apparently yours, they do lose a sense of scale in larger rooms. My room with the Merlins was 14 x 13. I tried them in my much larger living room and definitely experienced a loss of scale and soundstage size when they were in there. My speaker model is called the "db99". It is the second generation of the speaker. It is no longer made. There was a pair for sale here last month, the first I have seen in awhile. Both speaker models are capable of crystalline clarity and excellent soundstaging and imaging. My full range speakers offer more bass and fill my 24 x 20 room better, as one would expect. However, it’s been two years since I sold my Merlins and I mainly experienced them with another amp and preamp, and a different set of cables. I never directly compared the Merlins and db99’s. I did briefly try the Merlins with the 8 watt Frankensteins and did not like that combo. Also, I have changed cables and added tweaks like after market fuses and stands and a rack which I feel have made a positive difference with my system apart from the change in speakers. In other words, I am not able to attribute all of the sonic change I am experiencing solely to the change in speakers. I did buy my full range speakers before all of the tweaks and was thrilled with the speakers ability to fill my room with deeper bass while retaining the best qualities of the Merlins, at least in my mind, for what it’s worth. |
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Frankenstein mono blocks I have deliver 20W (circuit is internally modified and thus can only take 300b xls and not regular 300b). For most part, I believe lack of power is not the problem. Most of my journey with merlins was with ARS Filarmonia and then with Gran filarmonia. I am definitely nick picking with the flaws of Merlins as they do sound great in a smaller room especially after endless positional tweaking. The weak point of Merlin was always evident to my ears irrespective of the amp choice. (..may be my reference was set by larger Grand utopia). My Eureka moment came by chance when I sent my Gran Filarmonia for service and while it took forever to come back, I purchased a low watt Cary SET amplifier (don't remember the name). To my ears, I had never heard a more purer & relaxed sound. Who knows, may be it was rolled in the top but whatever it was doing, the sound was ultra clean and relaxing. Problem was evident that it lacked power. Everything you said is true with SET. I immediately realized I wanted SET but with adequate power. Finally got the 20W Frankenstein (not regular ones) and I got the power I needed plus the purity of the Cary. Any day better than Gran Filarmonia which I ended up selling. Needless to mention that I did endless tube rolling. But in the end, merlins are just not made for large scale sound stage and somewhat lack the weight overall and I believe this character is more evident in larger space. Having said that, I am addicted to Merlin as it is the most accurate, transparent and neutral speaker I have heard and don't miss grand utopia or Quad 989s (..both different w.r.t sound and $$ economics ). So Merlin has what I am looking for in my system. Just wanted to see if I can improve any further. That brings me to nick pick and the only aspect I could see improvement is what I described. Having said this, I totally agree that 99db and 8 ohms married to SET would be optimum. This is a good starting point to consider as I search my options. Which Von Scheikert model you have? Did you achieve all the Merlin and then some? What ways did you improve the sound? Thanks. |
I was in a very similar position – I had a pair of Merlins at the time that I bought my Frankensteins and CSLS. I also went from a medium-small room to a large room. I’m not surprised about your experience with your Merlins. Mine were a pair of VSM-MXe’s which were a couple of generations older than your Black Magics. The Merlins are rated at 89db sensitivity and 6-8 ohms impedance. That is not a good match with the 8 watt Frankensteins. That combo sounded exactly like you described - thin, lack of bass, and a restricted soundstage. You want speakers that have a high sensitivity rating and with high impedance to get the best out of your SET amps. My other speakers at the time were Coincident Victory II’s, 93-97db sensitivity and 14 ohms. They were a good match with the Frankensteins; really, it was a night and day difference when compared to the Merlins. The Victory II’s are no longer made, but have been replaced by the Super Victory which has an MSRP that is less than the MSRP of the Merlins. The Super Victorys do not go down to 20hz, but come close. I strongly considered them. Have you looked into them? I ended up buying a used pair of of Von Scheikert speakers that are 99db and 8 ohms. Like you, it was important for me to get full range speakers and the Von Schweikerts go down to 21hz. They are hard to find, though, as only a couple hundred were made. Most of the speaker brands that you are looking at are not appropriate for your SET amps. As for what would work, there are not many SET friendly speakers that go all the way down to 20hz. A few that caught my interest are made by Tannoy, Classic Audio Loudspeakers, and Avantgarde. They are kind of expensive, though. Also, here is a good starting point for speakers that might be of interest to you that would work with your amps: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Speakers.html#SET . You will need to do some research and sifting, as many of these do not meet your 20hz criteria.
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