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Upgrading path from Merlin VSM black magic

Goal:
I have been tinkering with the idea of upgrading and investing in floor standers that are superior in every way compared to Merlins. What are the Merlin users upgrading to? budget is 25k or under (used market value).
My present system:
I am using my Merlins VSM Black magic with dual BAMs with Coincident tech Frankenstein mono block amps (300B SET) and coincident tech line-state and phono preamp. Whole system is wired with Cardas clear cables. Using EMM XDS-1 and VPI classic turntable. System was built around Merlins. I suppose I might have to pick electronics suitable for the replacement speakers and in that case will build the whole system again. Preferably, I would like to keep the front end electronics/amps/pre-amp etc.
My music taste:
I listen mostly Jazz, Classical and vocals. 
My room:
I had Merlins setup in 12x16x8 room which was fully treated. I have since moved to a larger-ish space 15' x 21' x 9'. The room is not treated yet but would be fully treated with absorption panels/diffusors etc in the near future. I setup speakers with ears and with RoomEq software. 
Why not Merlins .. ??
I have thoroughly enjoyed Merlins but sometime feel it can sound a little thin and won't reach the lowest bass. Larger sound stage is desired. Full scale classical music can have better depth, width and weight. I have been using various versions of Merlins since 2009 and have the last version produced (Black magic) with dual BAMs. I have purchased two Funk Audio subwoofers that I have not integrated with the system yet. Merlin is not very subwoofer friendly anyways.
What I am looking for:
Ideal speakers would get from "Merlin" its neutral, resolving, transparent, low distortion, dynamic character. On top would also deliver fuller sound (top to bottom), be a full range down to 20Hz, provide bigger sound stage and has a more organic / relaxing sound (..better emotional connectivity). Speakers should be tube friendly, (preferably SET or OTL).
Brands:
There are simply too many out there. These brands come to mind: dynaudio, magico, sonus-faber, mbl, B&W, wilson audio, rockport, jm-labs, dunlavy, wilson benesch.  I am sure someone who has owned Merlins and made a move can give their input. Even a short list to audition would be helpful. I am based out of Orlando area. Would be great If any local member has a system that they can allow me to audition.
Past experience:
Other notable speakers I have owned in past include original Flocal Utopias (mezzo to grand Utopia), B&W nautilus series, Quad 989 among others. Yesterday's nautilus 800, 802 were power hungry and sounded boxy. This may not be the case with the newer models.  I feel like I am out of touch with what is out there. Have been out of market for long. 
Thanks.



celestial_audio

Showing 8 responses by celestial_audio

celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Frankenstein mono blocks I have deliver 20W (circuit is internally modified and thus can only take 300b xls and not regular 300b). For most part, I believe lack of power is not the problem. Most of my journey with merlins was with ARS Filarmonia and then with Gran filarmonia. I am definitely nick picking with the flaws of Merlins as they do sound great in a smaller room especially after endless positional tweaking. The weak point of Merlin was always evident to my ears irrespective of the amp choice. (..may be my reference was set by larger Grand utopia). My Eureka moment came by chance when I sent my Gran Filarmonia for service and while it took forever to come back, I purchased a low watt Cary SET amplifier (don't remember the name). To my ears, I had never heard a more purer & relaxed sound. Who knows,  may be it was rolled in the top but whatever it was doing, the sound was ultra clean and relaxing. Problem was evident that it lacked power. Everything you said is true with SET. I immediately realized I wanted SET but with adequate power. Finally got the 20W Frankenstein (not regular ones) and I got the power I needed plus the purity of the Cary. Any day better than Gran Filarmonia which I ended up selling. Needless to mention that I did endless tube rolling. But in the end, merlins are just not made for large scale sound stage and somewhat lack the weight overall and I believe this character is more evident in larger space. Having said that, I am addicted to Merlin as it is the most accurate, transparent and neutral speaker I have heard and don't miss grand utopia or Quad 989s (..both different w.r.t sound and $$ economics ). So Merlin has what I am looking for in my system. Just wanted to see if I can improve any further. That brings me to nick pick and the only aspect I could see improvement is what I described. 
Having said this, I totally agree that 99db and 8 ohms married to SET would be optimum. This is a good starting point to consider as I search my options. Which Von Scheikert model you have? Did you achieve all the Merlin and then some? What ways did you improve the sound? 
Thanks.
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
Tubegroover: I bought two Funk audio 18.0 master/slave subwoofers that I have not integrated yet. Overall cumbersome with BAM in the chain. It would be interesting to see if this ends the quest.
To audition list: 
Von Scheikert
Coincident Tech line
Dynaudio (btw, what amp is preferred?)
..(to be contd..)
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
Thanks brf. I didn't think of removing BAM altogether. This seems simpler than I thought. I will give it a shot. Funk has one of the finest eq curves and digs deep. I never looked into coincident line and I would try to audition them. 
tubegroover. I could not agree more. Merlins are so perfect in every other way that it makes me nervous to change them and end with a different compromise. Funk seems like a logical path. 
Thanks.
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
What could be the crossover frequency and slope for integrating Merlins with subwoofer? I have two funk subwoofers that I will try to integrate.
I will keep consolidating the recommendations for future reference. I am sure Merlin'ers would stumble upon these suggestions. 

Von Scheikert
Coincident Tech line
Dynaudio (..but not suitable for SET amplifier)
Audio Note AN/E
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
@signaturesound Thank you for a very informative post. The coincident technology line stage (Preamp) has two single ended and one balanced output.  Manual mentions that two single-ended outputs allow for bi-amping. Does this mean that both single ended outputs are active simultaneously where one would go into BAM to amplifier and the other to Subwoofer? May be this is a question for coincident tech guys.
Also, do you recall where the subwoofers were w.r.t the walls and the merlins? 
I see light at the end of the tunnel. Hope funk fixes my issue. 
@dgarretson Can you share the schematics of the upgrades done to the BAM?
Also, anyone have any info on how to get the tube mod to BAM? 
This has been a valuable discussion. 
Thanks.
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
@rodge827 do you mind sharing your experience with Merlins and how the Charney Audio Concerto compares to them? How do you describe the sound? Would be helpful to know the general character; strengths and weaknesses, compared to Merlin and/or in general. Thanks.
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
@dgarretson and @signaturesound : thank you guys for valuable input on BAM. I will try to upgrade the BAM if I stick with VSMs. 
So here are the options mentioned so far in this thread. These are not necessarily suitable with SET or low power amp but that is a discussion for another day. So the list :
Von Scheikert
Coincident Tech line
Dynaudio
Audio Note AN/E
Charney Audio Concerto
EgglestonWorks Andra
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
Even though I have not made the move yet as I have been experimenting with subs, I thought I will chime in on couple of things. 
Needless to say integrating subs is real pain but could be rewarding. I am not there yet but inclined to endorse the route.
@twoch, you might want to reduce the distance between the speakers (bring them closer to 6.5 ft and then move them out to maybe 7ft). IMO they sound fuller when placed closer especially in a narrow room. I like mine toed out where they cross behind the head (my room allows decent distance from the side wall).
@signaturesound, I have no experience with devore gibbons but just checked their website. O/96 choice is interesting as their spec'ed Sensitivity: 96dB/W/M would make them ideal for SET amps. 
Wonder if anybody has any experience with these and how they compare to Merlins.
Lastly, we have couple of other good recommendations that I would check.. Egglestonworks Andra III SE and Silverline Bolero Supreme. 
One thing that is top on my mind is to upgrade/modify the BAM.
Also, on side note, vintage Mullard El34 were the best tubes I had rolled when I owned Filarmonia and then Gran Filarmonia.

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