Doug,
If you wear that you won't need an ID badge! I look forward to meeting you and Paul.
Regards,
Mark |
Dgarretson,
Palasr's response, based on more experience than mine, confirms my speculation. Yes, the mylar (especially tweaked as per this thread) will provide far more grip than any thread.
***
Stltrains,
I won't say I'm surprised at your Atmos/UNIverse decision. I enjoyed the Atmos for rock, but for the music we listen to daily the UNIverse's superior resolution, speed and lack of overhang make most other cartridges nearly intolerable - even one as good as the Atmos.
Our system has improved in dynamics and bass response since we reviewed the Atmos. This makes the rock experience with the UNIverse very powerful. If we were reviewing today I'm not sure I'd need the Atmos's extra oomph, even for rock.
***
Jazdoc,
Glad to know another person has tried this tweak and is hearing the improvements.
Paul and I are both coming to RMAF (our first). I'm thinking of wearing a Hawaiian style grass skirt made of silver/holographic mylar, just so people can avoid me. What do you think?
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Doug,
I just received my first 'tweaked' belt. Significant improvement that was immediately noticeable. Thanks for sharing your experience. BTW, are you going to RMAF? |
Yes Doug i am up and running and i must say that glitter backed mylar will pull my platter up to speed in two revolutions. I am hopping it stays that way a while.
Off of the subject i gave Atmos a run but after using UNIivers for over a year and a half i am going back with it. Atmos is one fine cartridge and if i had not heard UNIverse i would and could live with it but IMO UNIverse wins in all categories. Thanks to you an Paul again for the improved mylar tweak.
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Dgarretson,
Albeit the fact you are running a rather complex idler system on your drive chain, I still agree with Doug that you'll have audible cogging via the Mylar belt, especially with the 300 RPM motor. I've tried implementing the same Hurst motor (with the Kelly AC-1) in a "direct" pulley to platter setup on my Galibier, and have a hard time with the cogging artifacts, especially at 33RPM (the cogging is much less audible at 45 RPM). And yes, the Mylar belt will provide a much more direct link to the drive mechanism than string - too lossless for the Hurst AC motor. The Hurst motor in question simply has too much torque to allow for smooth rotation - so much so that I've been seeking alternative motors with less torque to try this experiment again - the Premotec/Philips-Airpax (as used in the Linn) with 4 mNm torque, and the Berger-Lahr as used in the Raven AC with 7 mNm of torque seem like better, low cogging alternatives to the Hurst with its beefy 19.06 mNm of torque. I now understand why VPI uses all those rubber belts, pulleys and flywheels - they are absolutely necessary to reduce the audible cogging of the Hurst motor. That said, I think there is some degree of virtue to be had with an AC synchronous motor - qualities that I am not (at this time) ready to remark upon fully, as more experimentation is needed. However, the Hurst is a fine 300RPM motor - very stable and with enough torque to overcome all but the mightiest amounts of stylus drag; I can see why VPI uses this motor. I'd also like to comment very positively on Mr. Kelly's controller - I wish I had one when I still owned my Linn; in many ways, it is far superior to the Lingo, if only for the fact that it can be tailored to the needs of every motor (of which no two are exactly alike). Good listening,
-Richard |
Doug,
Are you suggesting that cogging effects may be greater with 1/2" tape than with the thread drive I'm currently using, owing to improved grip of tape? I had considered this possibility when earlier converting VPI from soft rubber belt to thread. But there was nothing but improvement. So perhaps this experiment with tape will determine if too much grip is a bad thing with AC motor.
Looking at your point from a different perspective, the 300RPM Hurst motor in current favor at VPI is audibly quieter and more speed stable than the old 600RPM Hurst motor. It's difficult to account for this if one takes the view that audible cogging effects are in an inverse relationship to motor speed.
BTW, the discontinued Kelley AC-1 controller allows separate control of each phase of a 2-phase synchronous motor, and probably does as good a job as any at reducing cogging.
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Dgarretson,
Further thoughts on your implementation of a VPI idler wheel as a pulley for a 1/2" wide belt...
Clearly this will necessitate running your motor at vastly reduced RPM's. Assuming your controller has the range to allow this, you still run the risk of exaggerating the audible effects of your motor's cogging behavior. As the ratio between motor RPM and platter RPM approaches 1:1, motor cogging is directly translated to platter cogging.
By all means go ahead and try. But if you aren't happy with the results the fault may lie with the motor and the large pulley, not the belt. A way to test that would be to machine a small diameter pulley and use it with the same 1/2" belt. The faster the motor runs (relative to the platter) the less audible motor cogging will be.
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Stltrains,
Glad to hear you're all back together after the evacuation for the hurricane, and glad you're enjoying this upgrade like the others who've tried it.
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Hello Paul and Doug i was able to get my mylar etched and installed today and would like to say thank you for a very good upgrade. When you have such small tweaks like this that make large improvements its a wonderful thing. |
Dan,
Dust buildup seems to vary with the weather. In the winter when our New England air is so dry, static builds up more and more brushing is needed. Less so in summer.
I did test static reduction in a simple and somewhat extreme way. Paul warned me it wouldn't help, but you know I never listen to him if I can make a fool of myself independently. With the platter spinning I zapped the belt with the Zerostat. INSTANT and TOTAL loss of grip between belt and platter. I could hear the belt whizzing past the slowing platter, it couldn't maintain its grip.
Dr. Chuckles wryly explained that the electrostic potential between belt molecules and platter molecules is what makes the whole system work. I knew that...
Dave,
I'm not saying mylar has no elasticity, just that the loads applied in this particular application are not high enough to reach its elastic threshhold. The "proof" is what I said above. Except for the occasional marauding cat, the motor position can be ignored for months with no change in performance or belt tension. In practical terms, it's pretty elastic-free.
BTW, the length of mylar under actual tension is not the full 50" length of the belt. Only the segment between the motor pulley and the contact area of the platter on the drive side is being tensioned.
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Doug, I have not yet laid hands on mylar tape, but I find it difficult to believe this material has no elasticity or even approaches the inelasticity of braided fishline. If you hold a 50" length of mylar in your hands(typical length of a TT belt), you're saying it has zero stretch when pulled at the ends? I'm not criticizing mylar, but merely exploring the point that some elasticity is inevitable and perhaps even desireable. |
Thanks for confirming that, Doug, about the motor pod differences. That is the conclusion I reached based on what I remember your Teres motor pod to look like.
With the Galibier motor I find that if I go real tight with the belt it will almost immediately climb the capstan. So I start there and gently relax belt tension until the belt no longer climbs. That seems to be about the best tension.
And thanks for mentioning about the dust picked up by the belt. I neglected to brush the belt between plays for 3 or 4 sides. When I brushed the inside of the belt on the 5 side I was startled at how much immediacy came back. Maybe Paul's next breakthrough should be a way to eliminate or minimize the static buildup. ;-) |
Dave, That seems like a great idea! Good out of the box thinking. Do you feel a convex surface is really necessary, assuming that guide lips have been added at the outer edges to keep the tape from wandering? I've never tried, maybe Thom or Chris Brady would know from the early days of the Teres development group. It's worth a try, right? Worst case: you mangle a $.25 belt. Best case: you discover that the greater contact surface provides more traction (a thought that's occured to me, though we haven't tried it). Give it a try, you can always machine to convex later, right? Also, one thing I've noticed with my thread drive arrangement, is that frequent retensioning is necessary as the thread stretches. You can really hear liveliness & bass improve after minor retensioning. No doubt about it, fully agree. Does tape drive stretch constantly and require similar maintenance? Never. Motor positioning and levelling are critical and may need an occasional reset, but that's all. Mylar won't stretch under the loads we're applying. I've gone months without adjusting anything in the drive system, though last week the cat nudged the motor in the middle of the night. Grrr! The problem with your non-stretch fish line isn't that it's non-stretch. The problem is that it's too fine in cross section to have enough grip on the motor pulley. Introducing elasticity might ameliorate that, but you'd be substituting one vice for another. So I suppose the optimal drive belt material should have some inherent friction, a bit of elasticity, and enough physical integrity not to break down and stretch to the point that it looses its elasticity. Yes, no and yes, at least IME. And that's the whole point of this tweak. The texture on the back of the holographic mylar is exposed by removing the silver layer. There's your friction. No elasticity, so no damage to musical transients. No break down either, mylar is a very stable material. I've noticed quite of bit of improvement with very low-impedance batteries That's been our experience too. Paul chose the battery we're using for precisely that characteristic. Yours might be even better of course. :-) --- Comment to Galibier users: Several of you noted that, unlike our setup, you don't need to tension the belt to the motor pod's near-tipping point. Makes perfect sense. A Galibier motor pod is notably heavier than ours and also more squat in shape, so the feet are more spread out. It would take a lot more force to tip your motor than ours, probably too much and possibly risking the life of your motor bearings. |
Thanks Doug, I made a couple of belts yesterday and used the 1/2" splicing tape since that's what I ordered. I think it will hold just fine. It's a lot stronger than the silver splices I was using. Thanks for your continued support! |
Doug,
I've acquired a spare VPI 300RPM delrin motor pulley to machine flat in order to compare 1/2" tape to the custom thread/pulley drivetrain on my modded VPI TNT. I have a lathe, but I suppose I would need to devise a special cutting tool to make a convex surface. Do you feel a convex surface is really necessary, assuming that guide lips have been added at the outer edges to keep the tape from wandering?
Also, one thing I've noticed with my thread drive arrangement, is that frequent retensioning is necessary as the thread stretches. You can really hear liveliness & bass improve after minor retensioning. Does tape drive stretch constantly and require similar maintenance?
I've had bad luck with completely inelastic materials such as braided Stren fish line. I believe a certain amount of elasticity is necessary to "spring-load" tension into the drive system. With zero elasticity fish line, the line needs to pulled as tight as piano wire to obtain grip(at which point it rings), and even then fails to grip well due to excessive slipperiness of the coated synthetic material.
So I suppose the optimal drive belt material should have some inherent friction, a bit of elasticity, and enough physical integrity not to break down and stretch to the point that it looses its elasticity. I can always hear the improvement of switching to a new thread. I assume this is because the old thread has given up its elasticity.
Finally to the matter of batteries. I've been using large 12V SLA batteries to power the VPI AC motor through Mark Kelly's AC-1 drive controller. The same Enersys Odyssey and Optimas Yellow Tops are used to power CDP and other line-stage components in my system. I've noticed quite of bit of improvement with very low-impedance batteries, and even more improvement after adding huge amounts of filtering capacitance. If you examine internal resistance specs for SLA batteries, you'll find that only the really large (and expensive) >50AH deep-cycle batteries like the ones above achieve impedance <3 milliohms. Whether these differences can be heard in your application is unknown, but perhaps worth a try.
Dave |
Frank,
I use 1" wide splicing tape. I do not use a splicing block. I get better results by matching and cutting on a small sheet of glass sitting on a clean, flat surface. YMMV of course.
Tools include a steel straightedge, an Xacto knife (a #11 blade works well) and a bunch of little post-it notes to hold the belt in position.
After cutting the overlapped ends at a 30-40 angle, I apply the 1" splicing tape ACROSS the join at the SAME angle, burnish it down with a thumbnail, then trim the excess off each side.
Easier to do than to write. Hope this helps.
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Doug, Is it 1" wide splicing tape you use? I ordered 1/2" wide splicing tape and it's not quite as wide as the Silver tape. I think I ordered the wrong tape now.
http://usrecordingmedia-store.stores.yahoo.net/1inch.html |
"Stilty".....Best of luck!! |
Hello Dan and Cello and thanks for the calls for good luck. What started as i would say a slow hurricane season is now heating up big time, 2 within 600 or so miles of each other. I am also hoping and praying for a hit in a area of least population.
I had the time to order etching cream and mylar yesterday. From all of your enthusiasm i am more than ready for this tweak.
I'm in the process of taking my system down and packing for evacuation if necessary with in the next 12 to 18 hours.
You guys keep the music playing and have a good labor day weekend. |
.
Siltrains,
.
Good Luck with Gustav. Hopefully, it heads into the Yucatan where it might do the least damage and harm to people.
.
I know what it is like (live in Miami) and feel for you.
.
Rgds,
Larry
. |
I know the feeling having lived in S. Fla. for 25 years. If the forecaster's are close to being right it looks like this one won't be a major storm but they all spawn tornados. We'll be pulling for you guys down in the big Easy. |
Dan thanks for the number. With the threat of a hurricane
visiting the area we are in serious planning mode. Hopping this storm will miss the main land. The next few days will give us the good or bad news. |
Stltrains, the McCormick's item number is 6033665, 1/2"x100' holographic mylar. You're going to love this upgrade. |
Doug thanks for the info going to place an order today. |
Great description of the stripping process by Dan_Ed above and Jfd01 is correct, the etching cream has no effect on the other side. Mylar is impervious to most acids.
Stltrains,
The black mylar streamer from McCormick's is just 1.0 mil thick. That's what Teres supplied with our first table five years ago. It's notably inferior to several materials we've used since, and it won't respond to this tweak.
Chris Brady replaced that black 1 mil material with clear 2 mil mylar belts several years ago. That was a notable upgrade and I remember sending him a big thank you.
Then we tried the silver holographic mylar streamer (also sold by McCormick's), partly because Dan_Ed and others compared Galibier & Teres tables found the Galibier more dynamic. There was little logical reason for that, other than motor-platter linkage, and we did indeed prove that the silver holographic mylar vs. Chris's clear mylar was the difference. We used the silver/holo for about 2 years, with frequent replacements due to the silver wearing off as Dan_Ed described.
Then Paul had the epiphany described at the top of this thread and all is good, very good.
Summary: the black mylar from McCormicks is at least three steps below the belt we're talking about on this thread. If you want a HUGE improvement without all the baby steps, buy a roll of the silver holographic streamer from McCormicks (make sure you don't order the adhesive backed by mistake). Strip the silver off as described above and be prepared for a shock. :-)
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Hello Doug you sent me a link to McCormicks for mylar streamers a good while back. What i am using does not appear to have a silver metallic coating. I ordered black, i'm getting great use from it. Do you think i'm using the wrong mylar streamer?
Many thanks for the great tweak and have a good one. |
Here's another source for splicing tape:
http://www.tapecenter.com/splictapinby1.html
a little cheaper, for 100' vs. 82' on the other site I gave you above. I don't know if one is better than the other..
I've never seen splicing tape in anything but white... but I haven't seen everything...
Frank, to answer your question about stripping. It's done on the side where the silver is: if you do it on the other side, nothing will happen. That side then becomes the one in contact with the pulley and the platter, the "inside" side, as you assumed. |
For those looking for another color in splicing tape I got some Professional Archive splicing tape for 1" and 2" recording tape from US Recording and it is a nice shade of blue and works very well. |
Splicing tape is always white so engineers can more easily find the splice afterwards. They sure won't have any trouble seeing that splice come around on a clear belt. ;-) Frank_sm, just to clarify a little. The "metal" side has always been the side in contact with the platter and capstan. This surface required a certain tension, no more and no less, to perform at its peak. Over the course of a few weeks or months the metal would have worn sufficiently to cause slippage. So many of us would just make a new belt and sit in wonder at the improvement of a fresh belt. Little did we know that we should have gone in the other direction. But, had we found that Doug and Paul wouldn't have had anything to tinker with. With Paul's new trick there is no more slow erosion of the metal surface and it seems that this textured surface is superior to the old metal surface in every way. Someone else may have a better method but I'll share mine. I use a plastic pan that is maybe 14x12x8 to contain the etching creme and wear heavy pvc gloves (Home Depot). Remember, it is the side the tape wants to curl to. Since I'm right handed, I start with one end of the tape in my left hand. I dab on the creme using a 3/16" artist's brush to get the end. Then I load the brush, hold it against the tape and pull the tape past the brush with my left hand leaving the treated tape in the pan. You can see the metal vanishing while you're working. Then I take the pan, brush and gloves outside to the faucet to rinse. It really is easy, using a little caution, and takes only a few minutes. The curl is still there, but you won't have any trouble telling which is the smooth side and which is the textured side. |
I just ordered the etching creme. I reread the thread and found it, many thanks.
Regarding the splicing tape, Is there any splicing tape available that matches the colour of the tape? |
Splicing tape is always white so engineers can more easily find the splice afterwards. |
Hi Doug, Thanks Jfd01 for the link. I'd like to make one of these belts. I haven't had the time to even locate where to purchase the "etching creme"
I'd like to see if you can clarify something for me. I've read over your initial instruction and want to make sure I understand the process.
The stripping is actually performed on the side of the belt that would normally be the NON-contact side, the shiny silver side. Then after stripping this surface it becomes the contact surface with the platter, is this correct?
Also, is there a known source and name for the etching creme? Thanks again! |
Oh, but it's white tape. ;-) Too bad they don't carry clear. |
Thanks for finding that link, Jfd01. I've got it at home, but I'm not at home!
Frank_sm,
Removing that silver backing you're not keen on is the whole point of this thread. When you do, only clear mylar is left.
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Frank,
These guys have good splicing tape:
http://usrecordingmedia-store.stores.yahoo.net/noname.html
Cheers |
I'm using the silver tabs. Can you offer a link to the splicing tape you recommend?
I'm also using Silver holographic tape. Is there a better type of tape than this? I'm not that keen on the color silver anyway. Thanks for your help Doug! |
Frank sm,
Are you using video splicing tape? The silver tabs inevitably spread as you described. So do general purpose tapes, and they can leave glue residue on your platter too.
Splicing tape won't spread. I've had two year old splices that were as tight as new.
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I've always had problems with the belt "stretching" at the spliced area so that the adhesive area of the splice becomes exposed after only a few hours of playing. This exposed area becomes larger as time goes by and the larger it gets, the more noticable the sound as it passes by the pulley.
Is there a know splice material that outperforms all available? That is my main gripe with mylar tape, the stretching.
I haven't yet tried the method Doug outlined in this thread but I'd like to, only if I can find a solution to the stretching of the belt at the splice point. Any ideas? |
Doug,
No problem with the splice so far. It hasn't moved.
Like Dan, I'm running the belt with a bit more tension than before, but not near the motorpod tipping point.
I also agree with the increase in micro-dynamics, as it dawned on me while listening to Stockhausen's orchestral piece, Inori (SWF Orchestra, DG). In this piece, Stockhausen created a "scale of dynamics" with 60 degrees, from almost silence to very loud (by varying the mixture of instruments and dynamic indications); there's also plenty of complex attacks and subtle resonances throughout to test the resolution of a system; and it's recorded with beautiful perspective in all dimensions. Plus, it's a great piece of music...
Cheers. |
I finally got around to trying this over the weekend. This is a wonderful tweak and I give it the two key lime pie award! I believe this is getting us close to the realm of direct drive, at least as good as an idler.
My perspective on the improvements are similar but, since I listen to mostly rock (a little flab in the bass is not a bad thing), I thought I may have noticed things differently. But I've had some time to digest this overnight and I don't think I would disagree with anything anyone has posted about this new belt configuration. What I've noticed the most is the increase in micro-details. I'm hearing new sounds in the background and around the edges. Bells, wood blocks, chimes and such are not being smeared anymore so they come out to the front. The attack and presence of all instruments is greatly enhanced. I hate to use the cliche about veils being lifted, but there it is.
I found the process of etching the belt very easy. HINT, is it always the side that the mylar wants to curl to. The thought did cross my mind about trying this with an already spliced belt, but the worry of what happens to the splice tape prevented me from trying that. So I simply cut the old splice out and proceeded. This led to a belt that is about 2" shorter than what I normally use, and I'm left pondering if shorter isn't also better. This means that the wrap around the motor capstan isn't as tight so the belt runs smoother. There seems to be no chance of belt flutter with the shorter belt. With the increase in friction provided by the de-mylared surface I suspect that an even shorter belt may work better.
My belt may not be as tight as what Doug gets. I say this because I'm pretty sure I'm no where near tilting my Galibier's motor. I found that there is a point where an increase in tension causes a noticeable thump when the splice went around the capstan. So I backed off to the point where the splice was barely audible with no music playing. That should be good as I find the splices to relax a bit after running for several hours. There is still more tension than I ever ran with the stock mylar.
And that leads me to my only complaint. It is too bad that splice tape comes in beige and not clear! Watching that splice go round and round is disturbing, but I can learn to live with it. |
Thanks for the report Jfd01. :-)
Good job hearing through the trick of flabby mid-bass that gives an impression of body but masks the texture and overtones of real bass instruments. The greater extension in HF's is, I think, due to more stable platter speed and lack of slippage: the tiny waveforms above 15K are easily lost if everything isn't "perfect". Pitch definition is of course dependent on platter speed, and the more pitch-sensitive your ears the more critical this aspect of TT perfomance becomes.
When you said you planned to etch an existing belt (rather than unspliced mylar) I worried about the stability of the glue. No problems there, apparently?
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Well I finally opened last night my new bottle of Etchall to remove the silver layer of my mylar belt (Galibier Serac), following the procedure outlined above by Doug--except that I was working with an already-made belt. I then did several listening passes, with different LPs, alternating the "cleaned-up" belt and a brand new one with its silver layer still in place.
Here is the list of the recordings I used for comparison:
- Vivaldi, Four Seasons, Fall, 1st mvt, Kuijken and La Petite Bande
- Beethoven, String quartet op.127, 1st mvt, Quartetto Italiano
- Stravinsky, Firebird, Infernal Dance of all Kastchei's subjects, Dorati/London Symphony
- Mahler, Symphony n.7, beginning 1st mvt, Haiting/Concertgebouw
So, a good range of ensembles and recording difficulties. In all cases, most noticeable were:
more extension in high register; much tighter bass, with better pitch definition and spatial localization; better sense of perspective in depth; slight recess of mid-bass range, giving a somewhat better separation between instruments (this one threw me off at first because it sounded like less body; but after some time I realized what was being gained rather than lost).
This has got to be one of the most spectacular tweaks I've experienced recently!
Thanks Doug and Paul, for your pioneering efforts!
Cheers. |
Hi Livemusic,
Thanks for sharing your results, and glad you were able to hear the profound (indeed) differences that result from optimizing the motor-platter coupling. It's obvious when you think about it, but hearing is believing.
Of course the best implementation for any particular rig can be anything but obvious. It took us 5 years of trial and error with 10-15 belts to reach this point with this table. Some other table might need something different, though the principles are the same: no elasticity and minimal slippage.
For battery power you'll probably want the battery option from Teres. It should still be available, ask Chris. This provides the proper interface to the motor controller (internal to your Sig II) as well as a trickle charger. You could probably DIY if you had electrical skills, but I don't and apparently neither do you! Maybe someone who understands electricity will chime in with an easy DIY.
One tip: although the Teres charger disconnects itself when the motor's running, we still hear a small degradation in sound quality. A few others (not many) have reported the same. We have our charger plugged into an outlet strip with a power switch, which we turn OFF while we're listening.
For the best battery we've found (out of 5 or 6 tried), see the link I posted above. |
Doug, thanks a lot for sharing your worthwhile experience!
I've tried it on my TT with huge success. Your belt replaced McCormic's black mylar tape and profound improvement accross the board was a revelation for me: my playback became better in each and every aspect. That was very educative experience indeed; now I convinced the interaction between platter, belt and motor is critical.
Next thing I want to try is battery power. I have earlier Teres Signature II motor (short case) with no battery power option. Can you recommend any battery/charger combination I can hook up without messing with electronics (my weakest point)? Thanks again. |
Dan,
We tried our big car recharger (similar to what Thom supplied you?). It sounded rougher than the Big Crank. I remember Thom theorizing that a Teres motor controller would respond more than a Galibier would to battery differences, due to its higher impedance. Paul says the Big Crank has very low internal impedance, so I guess that makes sense - as much as anything electrical makes sense! <;~)
Ducatrider,
I don't know any sources for 1/4" mylar. You could try what Chris Brady did when he first wanted to experiment with 2 mil vs. 1 mil mylar. He couldn't find 2 mil in 1/2" rolls, so he bought a large sheet and cut 1/2" strips with a straightedge.
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How can you go wrong with a name like BigCrank! ;-) So far I've stayed with the jump start type battery packs that can be found at various places. I don't have an external charger and these come with one built in.
So, there is another item for the list for next time I get down your way. The Anvil, and my Jump n' Charge. Sounds like a game for kindergardeners compared with BigCrank! |
anyone have a source for 1/4" mylar strips? |
Update: the cream Paul used is "Armour Etch". Paul's old bottle was half dried out, but a little water brought it back to life. Despite dilution it was still plenty strong enough to strip the metal layer from the mylar.
The link Dan_Ed posted above has Armour Etch on the top line of products. It's nasty stuff, but half the price of the friendlier product Dan spotted on line 2. Be cheap or be green, your choice.
Steve,
Rambling is encouraged! Our system also used to sound soft in the bass, much as you described. No longer.
Our battery of choice is this: http://www.batterymart.com/p-Big-Crank-ETX20L-Battery.html.
It's liquid rather than gel, so it reacts faster and delivers higher peak currents. The Absorbed Glass Mat internals make it spill proof, for safety, and there's no reason to restrict yourself to low amp/hours. As long as it's 12V you're safe. After several experiments we settled on the 17.5ah model linked above.
Another idea of Paul's, naturally, and it easily out-powers the regular battery on transients and bass. I can rock the house down to the lower limits of our speakers (32 Hz). Way better than what Dan_Ed heard the last time he visited us.
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Interesting re: Verus upgrade and your experience with it. I was in line to try one but then Chris kept putting me off on delivery dates so I just let it drop. I haven't really heard one, except briefly at VSAC '08 on a 265 model. I rarely get a usable impression on audio gear at shows. Too many distractions,... plus room acoustics are rarely good or comparable to my own.
Also interesting re: your comments about your "modified Ref II motor, modified controller and the faster/stronger battery "
This comment suggests that a stronger battery will help motor response to stylus drag "events"? Frankly, with my 145, this is the one area where it falls down in comparison to other turntables. It's really quite laid back in character.
This became obvious when I began work on a TD124 project a while back. The one area where the Thorens was really quite a lot better was in its ability to project percussive sounds into the room. This seems to apply to any music with a strong wide dynamic content, including rock, jazz and classical. Particularly drums. The Teres 145 seems week on projecting a realistic drum sound.
I'm also listening to R2R tape for another source perspective. The tape, particularly with classical titles, can project a very wide uncompressed dynamic scale.
But now I'm rambling.
-Steve
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Dan,
The etching cream was mostly gone long before Paul thought of using it on a TT belt. He used to do stained glass as a hobby.
That was years ago. You'd have to see our basement to appreciate what a miracle it is that he even found it. ;-)
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