Don't try to understand them Dave. I want to hear Diana's breath, and the resonance of her chest. My VK-D5(with 6 NOS Siemens CCa's, well isolated) delivers the goods. I wouldn't think of unloading it, except perhaps for a Linn CD-12, the right Lector or maybe that Meitner piece you mentioned(sure-I might want to hear it first). With the DCC2, it would cost a hair more than a Linn(if you could find a Linn for sale). |
Dave- I ordered the Tom Scott/Concord from Amazon this morning. 1000 watts/wimpy tubes? I guess I'm spoiled by the pro-practice of active bi-amping. GOTTA have tubes on top though! My room's not big enough to justify that much power($$) for my bottom. I suppose my slightly modded TransNova 9505(pretty fast slew rate/excellent damping factor: OOPS, not supposed to mention that) is putting out a little over 400wpc into the 6 ohm(nominal)Nestorovic 10"s I've got in my T.L.s(I just know the combo's flat, fast and accurate-for the sake of the thread: RESOLVED). |
Joey- Don't worry, It really doesn't. Actually: Some mil-spec suppliers(Vishay, Caddock, etc) are used extensively in the best audio gear for their low noise resistors (http://www.ecircuitcenter.com/Circuits/Noise/Noise_Analysis/res_noise.htm), BUT: the key to resolution without glare is passives in the signal path that are designed for audio circuitry(IE: caps by MIT, RELcap, RTI, V-cap, Jensen)(http://www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.htm), and well designed power supplies. The less that's in the circuit/signal path(input to output), the better. And YES- point to point wiring(which is rare in SS designs)instead of PCB traces. The better companies have improved upon PCBs to great degree, and again that takes research, time and money. (http://www.ultracad.com/articles/pcbtemp.pdf) There are many other factors involved, and they all add up to a more transparent amp, but(of course)- those don't exist(AY?). |
I'd have to personally know a used vinyl's history before I'd spend $60.00 on it. It may have been subjected to a second cutting lathe! I don't know how old DS is, but he was already a symphony orchestra performer(trumpet) when he quit to start Mastering Lab. He co-founded Sheffield in like 1970. He's no spring chicken, but still has great ears, and knows how to use 'em! Good info Mr. S- Thanx! |
Chris- All I can add to what Atmasphere said is, "AMEN". This is an excerpt from the Mark Levinson site: "Another factor in Mark Levinson excellence is the array of the ultra-high performance parts that populate our balanced circuits. Even the circuit board itself is of prime importance as it allows these parts to perform ideally under a wide range of temperatures and humidity. Here, the advanced material Arlon® provides a physically inert and sonically neutral base." If you were to open up a Krell amplifier, you would see an awful lot of these:(http://www.ibselectronics.com/passive/wima_capacitors_p_1.htm) Wima has been around for a really long time, and has "high quality" film caps down pretty good. I really don't think either of those companies are skimping on their signal path parts or materials. The Krells also sport Class A, and fully complimentary(balanced) circuitry which doen't hurt the formula. BUT- If I had the money for either, I'd own an OTL tubed system! |
I believe everyone in here will probably have a different idea/perspective/angle/semantic use for the term, "resolution". I get to hear live music twice a week, both amplified and acoustic as a sound tech. That requires me to hear the instruments/room/system from every listening point in the venue. What I'm hearing in my listening room(IF I'm not recording at home) is at the mercy of the engineer that recorded the performance, and the one that duplicated it at the CD plant. In MY perfect world all the genres of music I enjoy would be engineered by Doug Sax, direct to disc(vinyl). BUT- To quote Tom Jung(Digital Music Products), "You can't just send a master tape to a CD plant and expect to get back what you sent them", and he deals with some of the best in the industry. I have some personal recordings that I can use for reference to determine if what I'm hearing at home is accurate, but that's not my point here. My idea of "resolution" is getting whatever information(instrumental timbre and separation, full frequency response, venue ambience, etc.) that's recorded, from my source device to my ears, with the greatest possible degree of faithfulness. I'm big on truth, whether it's comfortable to me or not, and- I greatly appreciate transparency, whether in the people around me or from my sound system. I'm VERY greatful that this goal IS largely attainable. |
Nilthepil- For vinyl: Crystal Clear, MFSL, Telarc Digital, Sheffield Labs, Audioquest, Groove Note, just about anyone that bothered/bothers to press on virgin, or extra thick vinyl from original master tapes, and a lot of the Columbia Masterworks pressings are my favorites. CD: MFSL(some), Audioquest, Sony Mastersound Gold, Chesky, Sheffield Labs, Stax, Verve, Epic, GRP, Warner Bros. Mostly my tastes run to Jazz, Blues, R+B, with some rock and classical thrown in(I LOVE pipe organs) Those labels seem to be fairly consistant in their quality with those formats(some take extras pains to eliminate the variables and use minimum mics, special venues, no compression, etc. for the best possible sound). If you'd enjoy something entirely different/decidedly strange that will give your system a guaranteed workout: Find a copy of 'Dead Can Dance- Into the Labyrinth'. The dynamics, hall acoustics, drums(huge to bongos), animal sounds, instrument/voice placement(some acapella), recording quality, etc. are all killer. |
Dave- If you play a lot of gigs, you can probably tell the difference between Zildjians and Sabians when listening to a good system. Likewise- Can probably appreciate a soundman that knows what a Les Paul(or Strat, etc.) are supposed to sound like(w/o effects) when fed direct, so he can EQ the channel. It takes a love/desire for, a dedication to, and a familiarity with, the real thing to train oneself to recognize the nuances of individual instruments(not to mention- years). The venues are another story altogether. The bottom line is this though: What makes us happy and what makes someone else happy are never going to be about "right" and "wrong". It's all subjective. Some people like Chef Boy-R-Dee pizza(which I'll NEVER understand). But- If we all had the same tastes this would be a really boring world. NOW- It's different if you hire me to do your group's sound, or correct the acoutics in your concert hall. If I don't know what I'm doing/can't hear: Your group will sound lousy, the venue may be an acoustic nightmare. That's wrong and there are a bunch of those out there that need their fingernails extracted with.... Oh never mind! But- I'll never tell someone what pleases him in the privacy of his listening room is wrong, even though I find some notions really bizarre. |
Dave- I'll bet you'd enjoy 'A Twist of Motown' on GRP(if you don't already have it). Lee Ritenour produced it(a lot of contemporary jazz greats doing a collection of motown standards). On a couple cuts the bass can get a tad heavy, but other than that it's engineered really well. Chris Botti's kickin' it on Papa Was a Rollin' Stone. |
One caveat Dave: If you listen at realistic SPLs, and have woofers with output in the bottom octave(20 to 40hz on CDs anyway):turn the volume down a bit for cuts #4 and #8. If the CD doesn't generate some serious toe-tappin': check your pulse!! Happy listening:) |
I'll find one today Dave! Nathan East plays on 5 of the 11 cuts on "Twist"- need I say more? I do believe we've hijacked a thread Dave. Sorry y'all!! Then again- Your bottom has to be resolved as well to hear everything that's going on down there, and avoid(what I call), "one note bass". That's when you can't tell one note(pitch) from another on the bass instruments, or: the kick-drummer from the bass player when they're following the same bass lines(the sounds just blend together). A good test of your amps/systems bass resolution is the HDCD(RCA Victor) soundtrack of 'The Thin Red Line'. See if you can tell the two bass drums apart on track 3(one played with soft mallets, the other with hard), or hear the ambient air around the bass instruments in tracks 6 & 7. I'm not excited about the music, but it's a great test along with the Sheffield Labs Drum Record. All of the above are realities in live listening(from any perspective in any decent venue), and will be "there" with a resolving system as well. |
Nilthepill- Spiro Gyra, Acoustic Alchemy, Dave Grusin, Lee Ritenour, Mindi Abair, Gerald Albright, Jeff Golub, Al Jarreau, Joe Sample, David Sanborn, George Benson, Luther Vandross, and David Benoit are all in my collection on GRP(either MCA or Verve). Like any other label: some titles are more listenable than others, but- I've yet to be disappointed by any produced in the last few years. Dave Grusin started the label, and 'Mountain Dance' was the first album ever to be recorded fully digitally(outside of the classical genre). Did I resist? WHOOF!! But hey!! Digital technology has come a LONNNG way baby. |
I just cut/pasted this from a thread Mrtennis started a while back in the "digital" forum: (i like a dull, veiled, laid,back, boring sound capable of putting me to sleep. i hate treble and i don't like detail. i like subtractive coloration to such an extent that all recordings sound the same. you can talk about detail, neutrality all day long.if you don't tap your foot, it doesn't matter. i want to relax, not bothered by detail or dynamics. veil the sound and cut off the highs. darkness and dullsville is my motto, by choice. thick caramel syrup makes me happy) My purpose IS NOT to indicate there's anything wrong with his listening tastes in his personal listening environment. That is no one's business, but his own. What's interesting is how he seems to enjoy trying to convince others that his love for a lack of reality is correct. Stehno- I completely concur that those conditions generate anxiety and frustration. I've said it before though: If we all had the same tastes, this would be a really boring world. |
By the way: A system that WILL reproduce a vocalist's breath and the resonance of their chest will also reproduce breath over the reed of a sax, or the texture of the bow rosin across the strings of a 1715 Klotz Bass AND the woody resonance of it's huge body. To some of us, this is part of the gestalt of music, and the art of the recording engineer. If the information is present on the recording, I want my system to deliver it to me accurately and without adulteration. I can focus on individual voices(whether human or instrumental), or the entire performance as I choose. Generally speaking- I find music too enthralling to sleep to. BUT- I WILL let Jathintha, Diana or Norah lullabye me to sleep from time to time. |
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Something else that has been overlooked: Not all of us are Classical Music lovers. The vast majority of my listening/tech work is done in intimate club settings, smaller auditoriums, and/or done with vocalists/instruments mic'd(or direct). Many of the nuances that he eschews are quite present in the live venues that(I'm certain) a number of us frequent, and deninitely- the ambience you mention. |
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Hey Dave- I got the 'Cannon' yesterday. Gotta love those horns! Doug Sax has yet to let me down(took me right into the studio). I think it's great they brought Nancy Wilson in to do her bit on this tribute. The album she and Adderley did in the early 60's gave her the boost she needed to make it big. Her voice still makes me want to fall in love(even as jaded as I've become). Isn't(well defined) music great? Another great recording that will work out a system: The CBS Mastersound(half-speed mastered)'Weather Report-Heavy Weather'. The 'Birdland' cut makes the cost of the album worth it by itself. If you can't find the vinyl, Sony Mastersound burned a limited edition, gold(20bit/SBM) CD that captures most of it(just loses the absolute lowest bottom definition compared to the vinyl). They did a couple of Zawinul's tunes on the 'Cannon' album. Heavy Weather was his band, and he produced this whole album. I'll bet you'd dig it! |
