Ugraditus is calling....again. Phono stage?
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Al, I thought much earlier it was thought that most of the tube phono stages discussed would not be a good match for the 2170? Not that it matters too much at this stage as I am very happy with the ph10 and Robert has moved on from the 2170. Edit....just reread your first post on the impedance issue and yes you stated the Chinook should have no issues at all with the 2170. Not sure how I translated that to be all the tube phono stages mentioned would be a poor match! My bad but still very happy with the ph10 so far. |
Uberwaltz, the Chinook has particularly low output impedance (50 ohms nominal according to its manual; 91 ohms and a recommended minimum load of 2.5K according to its website description), so it won’t have any problem driving the 2170. Or most other preamps or integrated amps, for that matter. Best regards, -- Al |
Uber, Still undecided on the iFi. I'm using it with my CD player right now, and like what i'm hearing. I find that I'm listening to albums that are easily accessible through Tidal, but now with a "tube" sound and it's a blast. That being said, if I return it, that's an extra $399 towards a new phono preamp. |
Short list: EAR 834P deluxe Lehmann Silver Cube Manley Chinook Parasound JC3+ Rega Aria All but the Rega, I would need to purchase used, but I see them listed pretty often. I really enjoyed the PH10 used with the iFi iTube2, but that was make-shift (half-assed), so that's why i've included a few true tube preamps on the list. Of course, I'm going to be using the PS Audio NuWave shortly, and I'm curious to see how it integrates with my new system. It's been almost a year, and two systems later, since the first time I owned one. I remember loving it, so we'll see.. |
@rsf507 $2000 used/new. I've heard the following: Pro-Ject Tube Box S, iFi iPhono2, Parasound JC3 Jr, PS Audio NuWave Phono, GN PH10 - for stand alone units. Used the built in phono stages in the following: Emotiva TA-100, Marantz PM6006, Parasound Halo Int, Mytek Brookly DAC+, and Micromega M100. The top 4 best sounding to me, in order: PH10, NuWave Phono, Mytek, and Micromega. The difference between the PH10 & Micromega isn't much, and hence another reason I've parted ways (maybe temporarily with the PH10). I have ordered another PS Audio unit, but I plan on using that as more of a utility device - to archive, use ADC, and as a phono stage. I feel I might have to wait until my budget can increase to really step it up. I'm in no hurry though. |
@slaw Not really sure why you have decided to make it your mission to criticize my actions or posts but whatever makes you happy. Not my intention to provoke your ire, I am just here to learn what I can, share my experiences and enjoy the music! Lets see though... Lyngdorf 2170..... likely here to stay Nottingham Analog Spacedeck……. likely here to stay GoldNote PH-10 phono stage.... likely here to stay Cartridges... yes they will be an evolving mission Cables...… pretty much done with them now Grannyring has made me a superb set of XLR cables. Bluesound Vault 2... was thinking of an update after 18 months but nothing much better around at all. Speakers, yes just decided to update from my old Wilson Witt mk1 to a pair of the new Tekton Di, which have rave reviews by actual owners everywhere. Nakamichi 582 tape deck.... likely here to stay. Underpant….yep changing them frequently. Seriously though not sure of your "dig". Most of my purchases have been used and as used there really is no "burnin" required so what I hear is what I get right away and some items I have bought just were instant, "well not a good fit at all" In all honesty if my posts and actions offend you then probably best to just ignore them. Its a hobby, I enjoy it and the music that flows forth and if I decided to mix things up earlier to get to where I am now then where is the harm in that? Oh and when I listen to music at least 5 to 6 hours a day I get PLENTY of time to evaluate changes I have made tbh, at least in my system to my ears and imho. |
@rsf507 Should start shipping the first week of June. On another note, as is very common (stupid, crazy?) with me, I am switching up my system again, and moving on to another phono preamp. Listed the PH10 yesterday. We'll see what comes up next, and I'll probably start by looking at the start of this thread more closely to see what else was initially recommended for starters. so it goes.. |
Well.. This little gadget is very cool. On my 3rd record so far. I haven't played around with all the settings which include: -3 types of tube sound signatures: classic tube, set, and push-pull -3 sound stage signatures: normal, enhanced, and 30* enhanced -3 Bass signatures: none, +6db, and +12b I've been using classic tube, enhanced soundstage, and no bass boost. There is no loss in detail, but much better warmth, air, and soundstage. I guess this thing does exactly what its supposed to do. Build quality is excellent, and placement is easy since it's so small. I've used iFi products before, but placement was always a PITA, because the inputs & outputs were on opposite sides of the unit. Not the case here. More listening to do, but I'm very happy with my initial impressions, and highly recommend the iTube2. So much fun, for so little $$$ Now I wish I could try it with a 2170 - Room Perfect and tube goodness. Might be a very cool match. |
Uber, Just got a slight itch to try something new with the PH-10 - A tube buffer. I know there is a GoldNote tube buffer supposed to be released, who knows when? along with the PSU, but in the meantime I just grabbed an iFi iTube2 from Amazon. Very excited to try this reasonably inexpensive addition. Whether or not it integrates with the rest of my system, we'll have to see. But, if it does...I can't think of a single other "tube" phono stage with the flexibility of the PH-10. I should have it in two days, and will report back. https://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-itube2/ |
Well it looks like the Wireworld eclipse6 were just a poor fit in the mix. Bought a cheap pair of Audioquest Coral xlr I saw on local cl for a test and a whole world of difference. Still think I prefer the sound of the Nordost red dawn RCA right now but I can at least listen to the Corals without wanting to turn it off! Grannyring is making me a couple pair of xlr cables for me to test so it is good to know it was just the timbre of the cable that did not gel here. |
As I think on, the same issue arose on both the OPPO and the PH-10 sothe common factor there was the cables or the 2170 inputs. I have ruled out the cables as being terminated incorrectly and I would be shocked if it was just the tonality of those cables making such a profound difference. Which would leave just the xlr inputs on the 2170. How would I easily test them? |
Al Kind of where my thought process was moving as I noted a few posts ago that SOMETHING is likely wired incorrectly direct from the factory. But you are right, the cables are relatively easy to test, if they pan out I guess I could plug them into the Gold note and repeat the same test which would hopefully point the way further. And agreed it is easy to confuse the pinout from one end to the other. We use similar style plugs for 270vac power in our equipment and some of the "apprentices " in the shop regular misconnect one end in relation to the other, good job we have circuit breakers on all circuits...lol! |
Uberwaltz, a possibility that comes to mind, which could account for the symptoms you’ve noted with both the phono stage and the Oppo, is that the balanced cables are miswired such that their ground pin (pin 1) is interchanged with one of the two signal pins (pin 2 or pin 3) at one end. Thereby causing one of the two signals, as provided by the source component, to be connected to ground in the 2170. Which would adversely affect the performance (and eventually perhaps even the health) of the output stage of the source component. If you have or can obtain a multimeter, check that each of the three pins at one end of each cable is connected to the corresponding pin at the other end. And also check that each of the three pins is not connected to either of the other two pins. In doing so, it would be best to use a magnifying glass to view the pin numbers that are marked next to each of the pins, as their symmetrical layout makes it easy to confuse pins 1 and 2 with each other when comparing the two ends. And for that matter, perhaps the assembler became confused for exactly that reason :-) Best regards, -- Al |
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I have considered the possibility of something being wrong using balanced but this would mean 1 of 3 things. 1/ Goldnote wired their xlr plugs incorrectly direct at factory. 2/ Lyngdorf wired their xlr plugs incorrectly direct at factory. 3/ Wireworld wired their cables incorrectly direct at factory. None of those seem likely but who knows and short of opening things up I am not sure how you can easily test for mistakes like that and how to nail down which would be the culprit if this is the case. |
Interesting. I did a back to back on both and it was not noise floor or dynamics that were the issue. The xlr just gave me a very bright brittle sound with loss of mid and bass. Very tipped up at the top. no manner of adjustment cured that at all. I ran xlr at -3db and rca at present 0db. Matched db levels with the 2170 input sensitivity but to no avail. Just sounded horrible on xlr in my system. Very odd. I wonder if I am missing something in 2170 setup as my OPPO was the same results although much more pronounced on the ph10 You do not have to change anything on the ph10 for the balanced output do you? |
Uberwaltz, I have tried singled ended with both the 2170 & Micromega, but prefer balanced outs feeding both. The S/N ratio on the Micromega’s balanced inputs are about +3db quieter than the singled ended inputs, and the extra gain using balanced outputs allows me to set the PH-10 at -3db gain which has a much quieter noise floor. Using singled ended outputs, I have to set the PH-10 to 0db or +3db to get the same dynamics, but can’t stand the extra noise that goes with it. The balanced combo has sounded the best everytime, no matter which cart I’m using. |
Don’t turn my PH10 off except every 7-10 days will shut down for 2-3 hrs then turn back on. I think it helps break-in better this based on how I’ve done other gear over the years. I’m also experimenting with AC cords my dealer is loaning me to try, yes they are making a nice improvement in SQ more to come. |
PH-10 owners: Do you ever turn your PH-10 off? I don't think I've turned mine off for at least three weeks, even though there has been a day or two during that span that I did not use it. Definitely sounds better after it's been on a few hours, but I'm curious if any of you believe it's good to give it a rest every now and again? I do usually have the display turned off, as I do with all my components. The PH-10's screen does get quite bright, and I feel I'm at the least saving some power, but can say there's any SQ improvement with it on or off. I look forward to reading your opinions. Robert |
I do have a number of 60,s and 70,s records and some of them need help....lol. Tbh the America Columbia curve tames the brightness and harsnhess a fair bit. Which is why the zyx sounded better but ONLY because the vta was way to steep. Once this was corrected riaa regular sounded the best. Certainly glad to have the flexibility of the ph10 and think it was a very good choice for my new phono stage. All those changes in seconds with immediate confirmation from listening not 10 minutes memory. |
