@sbank thanks for your thoughtful info. You may know something I don't know about the backert. I think my long term goal is to replace my m180s with the vandersteen bespoke amplifiers. I've heard they are absolutely unbeatable but they are balanced. Looking at the backert products, they have balanced in and out so I thought they were balanced units. Is that false? Did they jerryrig the circuitry to add balanced I/O to an unbalanced design?
Tube preamp options
My system from the preamp on consists of a rouge rp-7, rogue m180 monoblocks, and vandersteen quatro wood speakers. My main source is a brinkmann Bardo through a Rogers PA-2 phono pre. It all sounds great. But there's that itch, you know? I get tremendous soundstage but not that much depth. Clarity is great, mids are nice, bass is excellent. But it doesn't quite have that in the room sound that I'm looking for. The RP7 sounded too solid state and analytical for me out of the box with the stock JJ tubes so I've done extensive rolling. Been through all sorts of NOS tubes and landed on amperex as they seem to have the best balance of warmth and clarity. My thought is, maybe I can find a pre that has those attributes out of the gate without all the rolling. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of being able to tailor the sound with trying different tubes but I feel like maybe there's a brand out there who's house sound I like better. I haven't listened to anything more yet but brands that are on the list to check out are Backert labs, maybe a used ARC Ref 6, VTL, VAC. There are a million little boutique brands tho and I'm asking what people have heard in the 10k price range, new or used, that might be a good fit for me and why.
Thanks!
Showing 14 responses by rmdmoore
@tomic601 thanks so much for weighing in. Your I put is valuable as we seem to already have arrived at some similar solutions. It would seem we are interested in some of the same things. I had an ARC Ref3 in my styem for a couple weeks and didnt think it was better than what I had but I admit, it's an older piece and would expect a Ref6 to be much better. While I'm interested in ARC I also find them to be on the very high end cost wise. I understand that going up from where I am the cost/benefit ratio will change but it's still in my mind. The idea of a Vandy preamp is intriguing. I wonder if it will be tubed or not. I'm not going to purchase for some months but living where I do I need to make plans to go hear all this stuff and that will likely take some trips to NYC and maybe the great white north. I also appreciate you're comment on the Brinkmann. I've been in touch with the distributor and he's willing to have me to his house to take a listen. I might need to take him up on that.
Russ |
Thanks for your further thoughts. My Bardo is on an HRS isolation platform but I can't say I have a tremendous amount of isolation downstream. I have nothing on the tonearm which is a brinkmann 10.5 or cartridge which is a Mike Trei installed ortofon cadenza black. I got the unit from stereo exchange and Trei had set it up for them. On my phono pre which is a Rogers Hi Fi PA-2, I took off the stock feet and put some Herbie's audio lab tenderfeet. I also have some Herbie's super sonic stabilizers on top of it. Tube dampers on all the gain tubes. I have no isolation under the preamp. I did put some 3" granite slabs undery quatros at RVs suggestion. Maybe an HRS platform under each of the other components is a good next move. @soix my speakers are about 30"inches from the front wall. I spent a fair bit of time talking to John Rutan at Audio Connection about speaker placement. Like I said, my soundstage is wide and focused with nearly no toe in but very little depth. @gdnrbob thanks for the thoughts. Going all Vandersteen might be the ticket. We'll see. I've looked at the Atma stuff and it's all balanced which is great but would mean I'd need a different phono stage and I really like mine. Haven't looked closely at Ayre but will check it out! |
@avanti1960 thanks for your thoughts. Your experience with the RP-7 is interesting and vastly different from mine. As I mentioned, I've done extensive tube rolling in the pre and have also done so in my amps. I have a an NOS Telefunken in the 12ax7 position and rca cleartops in the 12au7 slots. Additionally, since my speakers have a built in sub and didn't need all the power from the KT120s and after speaking with Mark at Rogue, I switched to JJ KT88s. I really like the slightly warmer sound they provided without losing clarity. Im sure I can track down a pair of amperex 12ax7 from Jesse but am a bit surprised you think that's where the money might be. Thanks everyone for all the feedback! It's giving me a lot to think about! Keep it coming! |
@testrun did you get the ultimate upgrade package? |
@harrylavo I've read a bit about audible illusions but why would I have to buy them used? Do are they no longer in production? |
There was a seller who had the last generation of Don Sachs preamp on the other classified site. It was a good price so I pulled the trigger. Seller has the newer one also and said the sound wasn't markedly different so I figured this is a small investment and we'll see if I like it. If I do I'll likely have him build me a new one and sell the old one. Too many great comments to not try it out. |
@soix I pulled my speakers out about Another foot. Now about 42 inches from the front wall. I haven't had a chance to recalibrate the subwoofers in them yet but will do it this week. My speakers are on 3" blocks of granite on a thick pile carpet. I'm a fan of Herbie's but unfortunately those gliders aren't going to help me much when it comes to moving them. I'll keep everyone posted
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My room is about 18 feet deep but I can't feasibly move the speakers further into the room than I just did. My wife is very understanding and tolerant but the room is not a dedicated listening space and I'd have to move all the furniture in that room to get them out further which she is not so ok with. Good point. I need to sit a take a good listen, maybe tonight. Since the speakers are so far apart still, I gave them a bit of toe in as I thought that might help with focus and depth |
She's funny. She loves having the giant system with the turntable in that room but I think partly cause it looks cool. But it's gotta look cool with all the other stuff in that room. Worry not though, she is supportive of an outbuilding with a dedicated listening room. She still wants a system 8n the library though so I get to buy more stuff, lol |
I want to thank everyone for l the input. This was quite a lively thread. As I previously mentioned I ended up moving the speakers as far as I could out into the room. This got the front baffle about 42 inches from the front wall. I toed them in a little just to sharpen focus. I did get some improvement in depth but marginal really and I can't move the speakers ang more. The couple of members that mentioned the Don Sachs stuff got me very intrigued. As I mentioned I found an older model 2 preamp of his online and bought it. Holy crap the thing is amazing. The greatest amount of clarity and detail but without sounding analytical. I've never heard anything like it. I think it has a lot to do with simplicity of design and with the 6SN7 tubes. It did give me additional depth of stage and honestly, just took me away to some other place. I'm going to stay on his list for a new one with dual volume controls and I'm not sure if I'm going to sell this one when I get the new one. |