I have been a tube owner for years and years and have gone with tubes from the manufacturer every time. They match them and know what sounds best. Often they will have a signature line (Jim White knows what tubes he feels are best and puts them in his sig series). I've heard people put different tubes in my gear or other gear and it may change the sound a bit, but a few times I felt it hurt the sound. If you decide to tube roll, I wish you luck as it will cost you a lot and you may or may not even like what it does. JMHO and there will be at least ten others who will say I am wrong, |
You can call Aesthetix and they can provide selected current production tubes, or you can call Vintage Tube Services if you want to try NOS tubes. Vintage Tube Services is the NOS tube dealer recommended to me by Aesthetix. They did a great job on NOS tubes for me with my Aesthetix Calypso and Rhea. |
"I don't know anything about tubes...
Would you have recommendation? Advises? Tips? Good tubes sellers?"
The best way to go about this is to call The Cable Company. Especially since you don't know a lot about tubes. They're extremely reputable and honest to deal with. Also, they ask every customer to give them some feedback all purchases. They'll tell you what tubes Aesthetix Pandora owners like best. |
G
Whats the rest of the system and what would you like to
have happen when you change the tubes?
Thanks JohnnyR |
Big fan of Brent Jessee who is very knowledgeable seller of tubes. On 6922, i have owned/own: JAN Phillips, Sovtek, Mullard, Amperex, Telefunkens. My personal favorites for even-keeled mellifluous music making are Amperex and Telefunken. The Amperex a bit more old-world, the Telefunken a bit more modern sounding...more 'straight up' detail. Neither inexpensive. Mullards also great and cost less. JAN Phillips fantastic for the money but super-microphonic...use an EAT tube damper with them so you dont get microphony (echos/vibration sensitive). Sovtek like bathtub gin...rough, not for me. |
Jim at Aesthetix uses the best easily obtainable tubes and that is Russian. They however are not the best sounding. If you want a more natural sound you have to tube roll. In my system I like Mullard's and Amperex. |
The tubes I've settled on are Mullard 12ax7 goal posts, either halo or square getter. These are from the late 50's.
And Telefunken E88CC (6922). If you can find Telefunken E188CC they might be even better.
I am going to try Amperex Holland D-foil getter 12ax7 soon as an experiment.
PS: I did not like the Telefunken 12ax7 or the USA Amperex 7308. These comments only apply to Aesthetix as these tubes could be ideal in other applications.
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04-04-15: Ctsooner
I have been a tube owner for years and years and have gone with tubes from the manufacturer every time. They match them and know what sounds best. Often they will have a signature line (Jim White knows what tubes he feels are best and puts them in his sig series). I've heard people put different tubes in my gear or other gear and it may change the sound a bit, but a few times I felt it hurt the sound. If you decide to tube roll, I wish you luck as it will cost you a lot and you may or may not even like what it does. JMHO and there will be at least ten others who will say I am wrong, IMHO, DEAD wrong! Companies realize 99.99999...% of customers will roll so they don't bother using rare NOS for stock. Plus they probably don't have enough inventory to support a product line. Of course there are exceptions such as Shindo ... I agree rolling tubes can get expensive this is a hobby and for me, it's part of the enjoyment. |
Manufacturers HAVE to use reliable tubes that are available in quantity, most likely current production models. These are rarely the optimum tubes for the application, but the best ones are likely to be (1) not available in quantity and/or (2) too pricy to be a practical choice. This simply makes sense and is not a criticism of the manufacturer.
Does anyone know what specific tubes Aesthetix supplies with their Signature models? |
Aesthetix uses the same tubes whether its a standard, signature, or eclipse model. In my Pandora dac I love the Mullard 10M gold pin 12AX7 and 6922. The 10M are rated for 10.000 hours and are more open sounding than the standard Mullard UK tubes. You will pay a premium for these and they are very hard to find. |
JMW, you sound very knowledgeable about tubes. Are you sure he doesn't use different tubes in the sig versions? I only have read their site on the Rhea signature vs regular (my new unit) and this is what they said about tubes:
Any tubes that can be bettered by our special stock of graded and matched tubes are replaced.
I'm assuming that Jim has a special stash of tubes for signature users. Not saying that they are lower noise, add less static, open the soundstage, image better, have tighter bass or anything else that folks feel tube rolling does for a piece of equipment.
I just had this tube rolling discussion with an audio engineer who is highly respected by this board who disagrees with MOST tube rolling for a variety of reasons. I don't know the specifics, but it deals with coatings being burned off in the beginning and folks hearing what they want to hear after that. I personally haven't tube rolled as I said. I've heard friends gear when they have done this and didn't hear such huge differences for the costs involved, but I do think it's great that some of you have a subculture of audio and love doing this.
I honestly wasn't trying to slight you KNG. Just trying to give OP another side of the story since he has no idea what he's doing. Has he been back to post yet? I'd love to hear his thoughts on this and which tubes he decides on using and why. Always interesting conversation over here. |
I honestly wasn't trying to slight you KNG. Just trying to give OP another side of the story since he has no idea what he's doing. Has he been back to post yet? I'd love to hear his thoughts on this and which tubes he decides on using and why. Always interesting conversation over here. Ctsooner, I'm just offering my .02 and participating in the discussion. I spoke with designers of my tube components. They all encouraged tube rolling and not one emphatically insist design only works with any particular tube. |
Guiche,
For the 6dj8 there are CCa, E188CC, E88CC and ECC88, 6922 and 7308, possibly others. |
Ctsooner, Aesthetix uses the same brands of tubes for their regular and Signature series. The Signature tubes may be more carefully selected, but they are current production tubes from the same suppliers. I just had my Aesthetix Rhea upgraded and spoke to Jim White about this.
If you own Aesthetix products, and want to use NOS tubes, they will refer you to Vintage Tube Services, as I indicated in my prior post on this thread. |
Has anyone tried 5751s, such as a pair of Sylvania triple mica black or gray plates, in lieu of 12AX7s in the Romulus or Pandora? 5751s will reduce gain by 30%, but shouldn't be an issue with digital. |
The engineer who says tube rolling is rubbish does not have the best ears. Don't feel bad lots of engineers that design don't always have the best ears. Tube rolling is fun and can easily be heard. Try it you will like it. Brent Jesse, Andy at Vintage tube are both good. Don't feel bad about trying ebay. You will save money over the other two people. Make sure they give you at least 7 days to return them if there is a problem. Brent gives you 30 days to try and you can return them for other tubes even if you don't like the sound. I thinks this is great. |
Thanks for the info guys. To clarify the engineer never said rubbish at all. This is what I posted:
I just had this tube rolling discussion with an audio engineer who is highly respected by this board who disagrees with MOST tube rolling for a variety of reasons. I don't know the specifics, but it deals with coatings being burned off in the beginning and folks hearing what they want to hear after that.
In the Rhea what would you change and with what to lower the noise floor? I know that it can be a bit noisy compared to great SS. I'll be running the XLR outputs into an Ayre AX5/20 which is DEAD quiet. I'd be interested.... |
A no brainer choice would be Phillips (Haarleen plant) ECC83--ie 12ax7 European equivalent. Look for the Delta codes from the early 1960s. Google and you will find all the background you need to know. They will beat the Mullards. Thank me later. |
And these will lower the noise floor? What other benefits have you heard? I won't become obsessed, however I may be willing to experiment a bit. Thanks |
I use matched Gold Lions from Jim McShane in my Pandora Signature(currently listed for sale). |
I tried Amperex ECC83 Holland tubes from the 50's (Haarleen plant) and did not like them in the Aesthetix. I don't see how phillips would be better. |
Dont knock em till you try them. Phillips Delta codes 1960 and up to about 69. |
BTW, I dont really like high gain ECC83 in Dacs, but hey...much prefer 81s and 82s. |
