True or False?


Many high-end manufactures deny the benefits of tweaking their components with upgraded power cables, fuses, etc. We all can agree that even the best speakers respond to room placement but is it true or not true in (your experiences) that the better your audio components are, the less they respond to various tweaks? 
aewarren

Showing 3 responses by minorl

There is a cost benefit analysis that goes on for components such as power cords.  does the power cord handle the current and voltage (load) requirements with room to spare?  yes or no?  Does the equipment sound great with the manufacturers supplied power cord or fuse (for that matter)?  What prompted me to buy the unit in the first place?

The manufacturer has to complete the piece with the parts used, listen to it to determine if it meets their criteria and market it.  Adding much more expensive power cords and fuses (don't get me started on this one), higher end caps, resistors, etc. would make the price of the piece unobtainable for many.  Also, the availability of the parts.  Some "higher end" resistors and caps are from small suppliers that may go away tomorrow.  If you are producing units that are to be around for awhile, you want consistency in sound and construction standards.

So, no, I would not be trying to find the small producer, latest and greatest caps and resistors, If i'm fairly certain that they may not be available later on.  

Same for power cords.  If after listening to my supplied cord with the equipment, I listen to a higher end much more expensive cord and I hear a difference (for the better) but it isn't such that it justifies the enormous expense that would added to the equipment, then I wouldn't go with the more expensive power cord to be supplied.

Also, a lot depends on what you call tweaks.  Room corrections are not tweaks in my view.  That is room correction.  Not a tweak to me.

I believe that most of us has a "I'm there" moment with their system.  If I'm there and the equipment and music performs to the point where I feel "I'm there", then I don't feel the need to do anything to the system.  no power cord upgrades, no cable upgrades, fuses, stands, etc.  

Now when my "trusted" dealers (Optimal Enchantment in Santa Monica and Tom Vu of Triangle Art) convinces me to take home a new unit to listen to, just to see if there is a marked difference, and I fall for that, take it home and do A/B comparisons and feel the need to upgrade again, well that is a different matter all together.  

Who knew that a stupid usb cable from the music server to my DAC makes that much of a difference?  

enjoy


I totally agree about the earlier comment regarding listening skills.  Very important.

Put aside the issue of listening to different pieces in A/B comparisons without making sure the volume levels are accurately matched before listening.  Because this will give the totally false impression that one hears something better on one than the other.  But, it is only  a volume difference that gives that impression.

Now, listening skills.  Same as for wine.  If you don't know what to taste for, you are going into the comparison missing information.  If one doesn't know what a real cymbal sounds like or  what a real violin (don't get me started on the differences between violins) sound like versus electronic violin, you wouldn't know if what you are hearing is accurate or not.

I would go to concerts, especially live un-amplified concerts, orchestra performances, etc. and take my children and friends.  listen and enjoy.  go home and listen to analog and digital recordings.  They would comment that the cymbals sound tinny or not close to as real as what they heard earlier.  Same is true for musical instruments, etc.  Ask them to close their eyes at concerts and tell me where the musicians were on the stage.  They had no trouble doing that.  Listen to recorded playback music and on some systems, they couldn't tell you.  On others with the same recordings, they could.

They were starting to get a grasp on what to listen for and the differences based on the equipment they were listening to.  then they realized that their ear buds, inexpensive systems may sound great as background music, but when they sit listen, it didn't sound right.

That is the education of listeners.

Same for wine and other things.  I had alcoholics in my family and it caused some negative destructive issues in the house.  I didn't drink or like wine at all for quite some time.  Weddings, parties, etc.  yuck.  Why are people smiling and acting like they were enjoying themselves drinking this crap.

It wasn't until much later that a good friend turned me on to Napa/Sonoma and wine tasting that I realized that I just never had a good glass of wine before and then started on the journey of enjoying and learning what is good and what isn't with regards to the various varietals.  Some wine, I just don't care for.  Others, well...  

 the issue is also for non-Audiophiles, they aren't really listeners.  They are playing music as background music while doing other things.  Which is not a bad thing at all.  But, they aren't really sitting and listening and would never justify spending the ungodly expensive amounts audiophiles spend on equipment. 

I listen to a piece of equipment either in my system A/B comparing or in the dealer's store (hopefully in my system).  If I'm happy with it enough to purchase it, I rarely, if ever feel the need to tweak it.

Again, as I mentioned previously, correcting the room to me isn't a tweak.  Upgrading equipment isn't a tweak to me also. That is just getting to that next level of "there" for me.  I actually don't consider replacing interconnect cables or speaker cables as tweaks also.  vibration control? tweak, fuses? enough people have reported significant  improvements to the extent that as an Electronics/Electrical Engineer, I can't dismiss it.  If it is in the signal path, then any changes can affect the sound.  Not convinced about power supply and rail fuses.  But, who knows?

anyway, I don't believe that most high end manufacturers deny that certain tweaks work, they are saying that what they designed and installed works great in their view, it isn't cost effective to install $2000 fuses and basically they haven't seen the need to install that fuse, low availability resistors or caps.  Or as the case of many manufacturers that provide SE versions later on, they caps or resistors that were used to upgrade from regular to SE version may not have readily available in sufficient quantity and reliable enough in the early versions.

enjoy

@rixthetrick

I've never had a crossover I've designed fail on my sorry.  When designing myself, I find the best parts I can find (within my price/budget range).  Since it would be a one off project, I'm not worried about availability later.

I was more speaking about manufacturers that have to make certain about the parts availability and the quality of the parts manufacturer. For example some Classe amps were designed with FETs that a few years later are no longer made.  you can't find the FETs to repair the amps.  So,unless you find a repair shop that stocked up on the parts before they became unobtainable, then you are screwed.

So, an equipment manufacturer can't be blind to where they are getting their parts from and whom they are getting their parts from.  There  may be better caps and resistors out there, but if there is a serious possibility that in the near future that parts supplier may not be there, then I'm looking elsewhere.

Also, as you can see on this web site.  Some people love to tweak and adjust.  They can't sit still if you paid them to.  I can't see myself  saying, wow! my system sounds great.  I wonder what the change would be if I changed  this or that.  Added padding, footers, fuses, etc.

I only ask myself this question if I feel something is wrong or missing.  Then you take the long and sometimes expensive journey into trying to find out what is wrong (component or room) and what it takes to fix it.

Don't get me started on room correction.  What a nightmare.  Get a test CD (Stereophile for example), and a sound measuring device. Run  the test in your room at listening position.  Look at the frequency response.  Gaps, holes, peaks?  now what is causing it and what does it take to fix it?
not fun.

enjoy