I have heard the Tron and very nice it is too. Why not ask the designer and builder. Graham Tricker at GT audio. He is very helpful and a strong supporter of his customers(he just repaired my TW accustic Raven one for free , even though it is 4 tears old). He may even have some upgrades available, but I am sure he can answer your queries.
sales@gtaudio.com |
A friend has the Tron 7. I've heard it in his system and in another friend's system. It is a very nice phonostage.
The manufacturer insists that it has been tuned specifically for the tubes that come with the unit and that alternatives will not sound better. I think that what sounds "better" is a matter of taste/system matching and it is actually unlikely that what Tron supplied will be "optimal."
In both friend's system, all three listeners, myself included, preferred different 12AX7 tubes than what came with the Tron. The owner ended up going with Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7s (the other friend has a VAST selection of alternatives). I would suggest at least trying some alternatives.
We did not mess around with loading. The sound happened to be decent at the manufacturer's preset loading (I believe the cartridges in the two systems were a Lyra Helikon and an Ortofon Per Winfield.
I too wonder about manufaturer's that don't make it easy to try different loading. From experience, most cartridges sound acceptable with loading of 100-150, so one can get away with fixed loading somewhere in that range. Still, with some setups, I actually like very little loading for a more wide open sound (e.g., 47k loading).
You could at least experiment with loading by either soldering in additional resistors yourself. If the Tron 7 has a step up transformer at the input (I believe it does), you will have to decide where to experiment with loading. My own phonostage (Viva fono), has a step up transformer and fixed loading. I found (by opening it up) that the manufacturer had placed loading resistors across the back of the input jack. In other words, the loading was on the primary side. The alternative would be resistors after the transformer (secondary loading). I disconnected one leg of the resistor so I could experiment with differnt loading. I then bought Radio Shack RCA jacks and adaptors, and a variety pack of resistors to make plug in loading jacks with different values. Interestingly, I ended up going with the value that came with from the manufacturer (actually not that surprising since, I found out later, the unit was optimized for the Transfiguration Orpheus, the same cartridge I use). With step up transformers, you can drive yourself crazy with experimenting with loading because, as mentioned above, you can try loading before or after the transformer, or a combination of both.
If you are not that technically inclined, don't mess with loading with a unit with fixed loading. If you have the itch to experiment, start with changing the tubes. |
David12...if you don't mind my asking, what was the problem with your Raven One? |
Moonglum, Speed control went haywire,it stated revolving about 500RPM, very alarming. evidently it can be due to static build up, though it has'nt happened to TW before. So Thomas sent a new motor and controller free, worth over £1000 and Graham fitted it free. You can't say fairer than that. graham earthed the motor, so it can't happen again. |
David12
What i know is that TW has a lot of static problem with the motors. I know of my own problems and 3 others here in scandinavia.
All of us, got the same messege. It has`nt happend before!!!
Now you speak of it too. So i think that static problem is a cummon problem with TW`s motor......
I have had my motor and controlor replaced, due to static problems. But i still LOVE my Raven One :-) |
Very curious to know whether this static build up problem is due to the motor unit is housed on the table base. Hard to imagine the static is from belt to motor shaft, then the problem will be all over the place. |
Pierre,
Graham Tricker builds his TRON phono stages to order. The TRON Seven has been upgraded since 2006, I believe. Whilst having multiple settings can be convenient, the dip switches could possibly degrade the ultimate sound quality like any other connection/switch. GT can modify your TRON to suit other cartridges if you like, or upgrade your Seven to current specification. The current Seven phono range has several models including an ultimate model with separate valve regulated PSU, silver wiring, bespoke components etc (at a price!).
If youre happy with yours, why change? I have had the same TRON Meteor preamp with on board phono since about 2003/4. I am really happy and dont see any reason to change.
Charlie |
David, Pierre...me too (2 years ago)....and yes, I was the only one to suffer from this.
No problems since then, thank goodness.
Although they didn't appear to know what the problem was at the time I suspected static was the cause. Ever since I've refrained from incidentally touching the motor housing (just in case).
Static can be very destructive. I lost one of my (active) Martin Logans for 2 months because of it. The stators are effectively an external terminal and can be used to input static as well as output it. You would think that something that normally handles 5-6kV would be immune but it isn't.
The sensor circuit was damaged, which affects panel charging. The panel still worked ok but instead of charging in seconds took more than a minute to do so.
David, many thanks for your kind response. Hope your T/t problems are history now. :) |
Resistive loading is really NOT a big issue when it comes to step up transformers. The bigger concern is the appropriate turn ratio and the amount of gain provided by the step up transformer. If your Tron has the right gain for the Delos, you really shouldn't have to be too concerned about resistive loading. Tron offers several gain options for their built-in step up transformer. For the Delos, as would be the case with MOST MC cartridges other than high output cartridges or very low output cartridges, the appropriate gas is 20 db. If yours is so outfitted, I would not worry at all.
A very good paper to read about gain and loading of step up transforms can be found here:
http://rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/mc_step-up_transformers_explai.html |
Moonglum Pierre. There is an easy fix, just earth the motor. Perhaps Thomas will do that to all the Ravens now.
I agree that it is a great table, best I have had and it is taying forever.
Even if there are problems, a company and it's distributors providing that good a service, is reassuring. |
Davis12
How do you earth the motor? |
Resistive loading is really NOT a big issue when it comes to step up transformers. The bigger concern is the appropriate turn ratio and the amount of gain provided by the step up transformer. I disagree with this statement. The Delos can sound quite disagreeable without proper loading, at least in my system using SUTs. If you pay attention to transients and timbre you get important differences depending on loading. If you aren't tuned in to acoustic instruments (e.g. good classical recordings) you may not notice this as much. |
Pierre1976, Sorry, I did'nt do it, Graham at GT audio did. I think he just took a ground wire from the power input on the motor, to the casing of the motor. Ask Graham at GT Audio, as I have already said, he is very helpful.
Unless you are very good with a soldering iron, it might be better to take it to a professional to do. |
Hi
I have just sold my Tron Seven phono and my LS26 preamp.
Instead i have got a Hovland HP200p.
So i dont "worry" about the settings on the Tron any more ;-) |
I disagree with this statement. The Delos can sound quite disagreeable without proper loading, at least in my system using SUTs. If you pay attention to transients and timbre you get important differences depending on loading. If you aren't tuned in to acoustic instruments (e.g. good classical recordings) you may not notice this as much. I disagree with myself, to some extent. It seems that the reason for the large differences that I was hearing was that I was overloading the MM input. So by loading down the Delos I was actually reducing the output and therefore curing the overloading. Had I been using a 8x or a 10x transformer, I don't think that the sonic differences with cartridge loading (above 50 ohms) would be nearly as significant. |
Pierre,
A friend of mine had a HP200 preamplifier. That is a very good unit. My only "issue" with it was the course steps for the attenuator (the ideal volume always seemed to be between two steps).
Once you are familiar with the sound of the Hovland, I would suggest looking into trying different 12AX7s in the phonostage. The "right" choice would be a matter of taste and system matching. The one that came with the unit might be ideal for you, but, you may find something else works a lot better. My friend ended up swapping the one that came with the Hovland for Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7s--a lot more expensive, but worth it in a good sounding unit like the Hovland. |
Larryi,
I can`t relate to the volume "problem". It has proberly something with the gain between the HP200 and the amp.... I dont know ;-)
Right now there is Mullard Longplates NOS in it. I`m thinking about trying Psvane, do you know them? |
Mullard longplates are good tubes too. We tried those in my friend's HP200. They sounded much better than what came with the HP200, though the three of us who were doing the comparison favored the Bugle Boys. The Mullards have a slightly phasey sound in the HP200 (and also in the Tron 7). The Telefunkens we tried were a bit too lean sounding.
I have not heard the Psvane tubes myself. They have a good reputation, so they are certainly worth trying. We really need current production tubes to shine, otherwise, the supply situation will just grow progressively worse. |
