Don't forget that Stereophile ratings are NOT fixed, but relative to the advances in audio: A speaker that got an A rating in 1995 might not make the C list in 2005. So, I will bet that a/b comparison of the Titus XS (which got the B rating) with the new version would leave the original XS in the dust. Simply, the competition is just stiffer and expectations higher, making a higher standard for the B class than four years ago. Just my 2 cents.... |
Having done some research ( about time I did, blush ) I discover that the Titus ES doesn't compare with the old Titus 202. The ES line's 202 replacement is called the Stella. The new Titus ES is a new speaker. That's what the dealers say, anyway. Certainly the Stella is sized ( and priced ) more like the old Titus.
I listened to the Stella when my Dad chose his Titus ESes and I liked it OK. Next to the Titus, though, it was boxy. The Tituses did a better disappearing act. |
I would say the price hike is due to the dollar being pitifully weak and not Triangle trying to make more money. |
I do take them with a grain of salt. Heck, something that sounds good in the bedroom can sound like hell in the living room so these are generalizations. One note that you brought up is that the Titus got more expensive, and it did. And while it may be put in a more competative class in the real world, the Stereophile ratings are not based on value,but just overall performance. So a class B speaker wether it be $500 or $5000 should be able to get the listener to the same level of performance if the rest of the chain is up to snuff. The Titus was not just a great $500 speaker, but a great $2000 speaker.
The fact Triangle hiked the price and lost some footing in the strereophile rankings (which is extremely coveted by all manufacturers listed)to me = dissapointment.
-rob |
Boy, Beheme, you use a pretty broad brush here. Tellig was tipsy and under the Gallic charm of the manufacturer, you say? The speakers are hi fidelity over part of their range, sort of like a rotten egg which has good bits in it? And what's wrong with a speaker sounding good with a cheap tube amp? Nothing against telling it like it is, but could you be a bit more specific? Robr45, you wrote: the new Titus ES slipped to class C in the Stereophile rec components list I have to agree that this only means the manufacturer made significant changes. Stereophile's ratings and rating system have to be taken with a good half shaker of salt. You find this out after you listen to the gear they review, as you have probably discovered. You may disagree with the early high rating as much as you disagree with the current 'C' rating. Remember the much-loved Meadowlark Shearwater Hot Rod only got a C rating from Chip Stern. Also, the ES version of the Titus has become a fair bit more expensive. That brings it into a more demanding class. |
We have all heard this 100 times about Tellig and Triangle and his apparent raving. How do you explain all of the other terrific reviews though? TNT for example... I would agree that they are not going to be everyones cup of tea but your view is a little extreme.
BTW, there are plenty of "cheap tube" amps that sound pretty darn good.
-rob |
It it weren't for the wine he had over dinner with Arnaud (Triangle's owner), Tellig would have never made a big fuss about the Titus IMHO. They are the perfect example of incomplete speaker-design which shortcomings (and theere are many) give them an apparent imaging and transparency. In reality, they are only hifi in the 100-400 Hz range: below they are non-existent, above they are impossible to listen too...unless you mellow them out with some cheap tube amps, incomplete design as well. |
Anyone notice that the new Titus ES slipped to class C in the Stereophile rec components list? Apparently Triangle could not follow the if it aint broke dont fix it mantality.
So the original Titus XS was bettered by the 202 and the successor to the 202, the Titus ES took a step backwards.
The only complaint that the blurb said was that the new ES could not be powered by the 3.5 wpc SET. Which to me means that they made some significant changes.
-rob
-rob |
Like you, I would be interested in hearing the Arro's first on my list. They look good, go great near a wall, don't need a stand, and they put up a nice soundstage. I remember they did strings and voices well and I certainly don't remember any aggression in the highs. |
Bruce,
You are very welcome! Looks like you are certainly heading down the right road speaker wise..Nice choices. Good Luck!
Chris |
Thanks, Chris, Arthur and Tobias for your input. I bought the Arcam before purchasing the Triangles. I was running Paradigm Ref. Studio 20's but grew tired of them. I'm afraid I can't afford to buy another Amp, tube or otherwise so I am concentrating on finding a pair of speakers that will sound good with my Arcam which I'm very happy with. Other threads have recommended, Green Mountain Europas, Proac Ref 8's, Totem
Arro's, Dynaudio, and some others I can't think of right now. The Totem Arro's sound like the best bang for the buck and they do have a soft dome tweeter which should offset the Arcam's solid state sound.
Bruce |
When I listened to Tituses they were hooked up to a NAD C320 BEE ( first session ) and to Copland tube electronics for the second listen. Needless to say the Coplands made the Tituses sound best. The NAD was surprisingly good, but in a way different price league. It sounded rougher and I knew I would tire of it faster.
It makes me think once more that the old advice is good : make sure your upstream components are higher-res than your downstream ones. The NAD-Titus setup inverted this principle, and so the Tituses didn't sound any better than they had to. The Coplands made them sing. |
Man if I had known you were using an Arcam receiver, I would have warned you about excess brightness with Triangles. I wouldn't care for that pairing either. If you want to keep the Arcam, I would try something like Coincident Triumphs. They are very efficient and can use a little high frequency boost. I bet they would sound much better than Triangles with you amp. Good luck!
Arthur |
I would suggest something without a metal tweeter..
Chris |
Hi Aball, I have to agree, the Triangles have remarkable clarity. I recently purchased an Arcam AVR300 because I listen to both music and DVD movies/TV/etc... So I know that the Solid State Arcam is contributing to the bright sound. That is one reason I thought the Totem's would sound good. |
French speakers tend to be very system dependant. You can't just toss them into the pot and hope the receipe works out like you can with most other speakers. Getting the right ingredients is the key to success and that takes some time and effort. But get it right and their dynamics and clarity will reward you like few others can.
I know the Arros well - they will be a HUGE change in sound type. Their treble is not very articulate which affects their overall transparency excessively in my opinion. Same goes for the poor Hawks we A/Bed with my JM Labs - we were surprised at how muddy and confused the Totems sounded in comparison. But, they may be more your taste than mine!
By the way, what electronics are you using? Arthur |
Good to hear! I was afraid they would not. A good friend of mine had a pair and at first loved them. Then after owning them a while, he realized he was listening to music a lot less than he used to. The Triangles were just fatiguing to listen to. Once he sold them, problem solved. Good luck!
Chris |
Hello The_Kid, yes the highs have mellowed just a bit, the more I listen to them the better they sound but they seem to be lacking in the lower midrange area yet they throw a very good soundstage and are guite transparent. I am going to continue listening but I kind of miss that lower midrange area and I am thinking about moving on to Totem Arros, just a though. |
Has the sound changed?
KiD |
I had a pair of 202 ex a little while back. they were definitely on the bright side, I could only listen to them through tubes. They had a very fast, electrostatic like sound with transparency to match, though. |
I will give them plenty of time to break in. I here this same complaint about JM Lab speakers which is also French made. It makes me wonder if the French have hearing loss in the higher freq. range and they make them to compensate? hahahaha! |
They will smoooth out nicely after 100 hrs or so. Unless you have mated them with forward sounding electronics.
The sounds will certainyl change though over the next few weeks. |
I kind of doubt it. They are BRIGHT speakers even when broken in.
KiD |
All the Triangle speakers ARE bright.
Some are very bright, other are just bright... |
I definately will give them time, they are brand new so I know they need time to break in. Thanks again. |
Be patient and give them some time. Reassess your thoughts after about a week with them. |
I just returned home from my trip to Oregon, my Triangle Titus's were here waiting for me. I hooked them up immediately and maybe it's because they are brand knew, I don't know. But they are a very bright sounding speaker. I'm hoping some of the brightness will deminish once they are broken in. At the same time with the right music they do have a tendency to pull you into the music. I will keep listening with different types of music and see what happens. |
Congratulations! I have come around to Triangles since I first heard them. I want to try a pair of Naias myself. Let us know how you like the Titus 202! Arthur |
Great News!!!!!!!!!
A salesperson from an Audio Store, Upscale Audio, in S. Calif.
called me back this evening and had one pair of Triangle Titus 202's left. I got a great deal and I should have them by Tuesday. I hope they are as good as everyone has said. We'll See! :) Thank you for all your input, it was greatly appreciated! |
For clarification, the tweeter problems were with the original XS, not the 202, whose name comes from the "new" 202 tweeter. I think these speakers are an exceptional value, although I can only speak for the larger floorstanders from direct experience. However, the virtue of these speakers, i.e. their transparency, can be problematic if the rest of you gear isn't up to par (garbage in, garbage out). Mine (Antals) were too bright in my system until I upgraded my digital source- revealing the limitations of my previous dac/transport. |
The Titus ES is the current model and it's a really nice speaker. Airy, dynamic, unboxy, fast, gorgeous mids, and respectable lows for its size. It did cellos and quartets very nicely when I auditioned it, but also drums and finger snaps. Depth and soundstage were very good. Efficient too.
That demo was with Copland tube gear. My Dad bought them on the strength of it, to pair with his Linn Classik. He says they're great, but I haven't heard that setup yet. |
I've had mine for a little over a year and really like them. Be sure that it has the gold front tweeter, the earlier models had a silver front and these sometimes would loosen up and change the sound. I paired mine with a Dayton Titanic sub and am very pleased. |
Get the upgraded versions...SE I think??? Er, whatever's newest, get those.
I think the original 202's had a quality control issue with the phase plug on the tweeter, often mis-aligned, causing brightness issues. The newer fixed that.
I think you'd do well with the Titus, on warm full bodied gear, even tubes. Good luck |
