Well millercarbon, here I go. I told you so!
I read many times for years that they were great, and I started to believe it, so I finally bought a pair when the right deal came up. Yes, they work, and despite the supposed impossibility of them affecting redbook playback...they do!
I think that you will learn the right setting for your speakers in time. On mine it's usually but not always 3, but sometimes 4.
Also, and this is important!...don't just plunk them on top. Make a dedicated set of stands for them with a wooden pole and two pieces of flat square wood about 5"x5", at the correct height to be approximately coincident with the center of one of your tweeter arrays. I would suggest the top one. You can put this on the inside or outside of the speaker cabinet. I put them on the inside, and yes, it makes a difference! |
I can’t address any of the points that mijostyn makes about supertweeters in an informed way, because I don’t have the knowledge, only hearsay.
I do believe that some, or maybe all of what he’s saying could be true, but I let what I hear guide me, because in the end, that is what matters to me.
I can say that I listen to my system every day, and the imaging (as I understand the term) has not suffered in any way from the addition of the supertweeters. I have not noticed any comb filtering effects either.
I do understand that a supertweeter like this one that is not brought in at a frequency specific to the owner’s particular speakers would be considered crude and improper; and the only adjustment is five levels of attenuation.
In spite of these technical problems, in my perception, the music has a more extended but smooth treble response, and as other users have said, the effect appears to reach into other areas. Listening to string bass in jazz music, the harmonics that the strings produce are more audible to me, and sound more realistic. I will also note that two years ago I bought a nicely made pair of supertweeters for $300.00 that are not ribbons, but more like a flat EMIT type, and I found them artificial sounding and "separated" form the rest of the music. They worked the same way, attaching to the speaker terminals an with attenuators.
That is my experience, and for me, in spite of what may indeed be technically "wrong" with the Townshend supertweeters, I am very pleased with them and have no plans to get rid of them.
I can understand your viewpoint mijostyn, based on your knowledge, but my actual experience with them has been different. I do respect your input. |
facten,
That's true, they do recommend placing them on top of the speaker, and I called a Townshend dealer who said the same. However, in my case, my speakers are a D'Appolito configuration with a center horn between two bass drivers which produces the midrange and treble; so I thought that it would make more sense to have the supertweeter located on the same level as well as pushed back as deep as the depth of the driver inside the horn to make it at least somewhat more coincident.
I didn't have a proper stand when I first bought the supertweeters, so I placed them on top, and did hear some of the desired effect, but once I built the simple stands that were needed for the placement that I describes, it sounded much better, and I think that there are two reasons for that. First, as I said, the placement made the tweeter more coincident with the midrange, and second, the ribbon tweeter was now much closer (on my tall speakers) to my ear level. Remember, ribbon tweeters aren't like dome tweeters; they don't have very wide vertical or horizontal dispersion, so the placement relative to your ears matters.
If you are using a set of small monitors on stands for instance, with the speakers tweeter mounted near the top of the cabinet, then it's probably fine to just place the supertweeter right on top of the cabinet. |
millercarbon,
When I was experimenting with placement, I used velcro tape on the inside wall of each speaker and the supertweeter to see how much different it sounded compared to placing it on top. The heavy duty velcro tape didn't damage the finish when I removed it, and I was able to see the benefit before I made little stands for them. |
After reading all of the posts above, many with knowledgeable reasoning that supports the belief that these supertweeters can't really work as they claim to, and as I experience them, I reminded of that saying that goes something like "If the measurements don't support the experience, you're measuring the wrong thing."
Maybe that's the issue. |
Here's an interesting test if you own these supertweeters, or even another brand. I've seen several comments on this thread questioning the audibility of the supertweeters because of our limited ability to sense or hear very high frequency information. Well, one contributor here said that Max Townshend advised that he reverse the polarity be swapping the leads.
I emailed Max and asked why. He said that it gives a feeling of airy spaciousness, which is pretty much the response I expected after many times hooking up interconnects incorrectly. I tried it today with music I know well; first correct phase, and then inverted. Inverted phase was clearly unfocused whereas correct phase sounded focused with clearly defined images.
For me, this clearly proves the audibility of the contribution made by the supertweeters. I already knew what they were doing, but I think that this could be a good test for doubters. |
mozartfan,
What does your last diatribe have to do with this thread or anything else? |
musicmann1 and millercarbon,
I want to again strongly recommend that you try to align the supertweeters as closely as you can to the tweeter centers. It absolutely makes a positive difference. |
mapman,
I think that what antigrunge is saying is that they do effect other parts of the frequency spectrum, like the bass. In my experience, I have noticed enhanced string overtones on stand up string bass, which gives a feeling of more dimension and increased definition. |
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I have a Dachshund, a Siamese and an orange Tabby, and none of them seem to notice the supertweeters, but the Siamese hates it when the smoke alarm goes off. |
I have read some of this before, and I am amazed and happy that in spite of the shaky foundation that it was built on, brilliant minds have managed to make digitally reproduced music sound really good. |
millercarbon,
I'm sure that I'm getting boring with this, but try to ake the time to get the placement right, because you will be rewarded.
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I keep mine on the inside millercarbon. Glad that you're pleased.
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