Townshend Audio Podiums: The Full Review
@bluemoodriver "How the devil do you think the microscopic and high frequency vibrations your cabinet experience are dampened in any way by springs and bellows with holes in." "It is utter gobbledygook, antediluvian nonsense." "You are imagining - imagining - a vibration of your speaker which is incompatible with reality, and imagining - imagining - these springs and bellows are a solution to a vibration type which doesn’t exist and which they couldn’t do anything about anyway." "There is a whole industry built up around you, fleecing you, and they are laughing up their sleeve with every new sale they make. It’s really sad." Thanks for providing a much needed balance to this ongoing debate. Usually I would very much be on the side that demands to see data and evidence first, but in this case it's not so easy to find any. I have seen accelerometer readings which indicate that there is far less baffle resonance with footers than with spikes or without. There is also a growing number of speaker manufacturers now offering the option of using spikes or rubber feet. The big question is whether we can actually hear the differences as opposed to imagining them. In my personal (anecdotal) experience using compliant materials underneath my speakers improves their sound (bass tunes become clearer, the mid and top seem to be cleaner/easier to hear). I would guess that the isolation / compliance underneath the speaker reduces the effective mass that the drivers are working against, and thereby reducing ringing and improving time coherence - as was suggested in the Credo Audio video mentioned earlier. Perhaps in this case because of the negligible cost of springs / sorbothane etc, this is an experiment we can all try at home first before deciding if it's worth investing in relatively expensive designs such as those podiums offered by Townshend Audio. Or perhaps your argument is right, and that there is no significant independent evidence available. Hence the lack of much manufacturer interest in this subject. The acid test would be if the sorbothane/springs/ podiums etc were switched in and out (with speaker height maintained) without the listener being aware. It wouldn't be easy to arrange, nor would the switching be instant, and nor might the results be universal, but it would still be of interest I'm sure. As far as I know, no one has ever yet conducted such a test. We already know only too well what happens when cables, DACs, CD players, 192kHz+ bitrates etc are all tested in this manner. |
@bluemoodriver, "Someone should tell Russ Andrews that doing the opposite and floating the speaker on springs and bellows would have the same positive effect of better “bass definition and greater clarity”, but with a much better profit margin." Now, now, don’t give him any more ideas. Russ seems to be an advocate of coupling as opposed to isolating. This is indicated by his preference of multilayered wooden designs which he calls Torlyte. If he was to suddenly change his mind after all these decades, his customers might want a very good reason as to why. Anyway if you fancy reading the words of a very slick and experienced salesman here’s the link below. Beware, he is quite skilled at telling a story and feels no shame in name-dropping Isaac Newton or attempting to conjure up images of the Neolithic ’ice man’ found in the Alps, or the natural sound of wood etc. What you won’t find though is any hard evidence or data to back up his story. https://www.russandrews.com/the-torlyte-story/ Whatever the truth might be there’s no denying that speaker isolation is an increasingly large business. There are already numerous cheap foam based supports being offered on Amazon currently. Some of them used by seemingly satisfied customers, especially for subwoofers. There is also another side to this issue of isolation, namely that it could all just be mainly an attempt to ameliorate the effects of poor cabinet design / placement. I certainly suspect that this is at least partially the case with my 1970s Tannoy Berkeley’s with their largely unstuffed and unbraced interiors. You could say it’s a very 1970s sound - large, dynamic, warm with a cake like tendency to bloat. So until we get some data feedback for different speakers on different surfaces and in different rooms, isolation is likely to remain one of those try it see for yourself operations. As for anecdotal evidence in favour of isolation, well there does seem to be a growing amount. |
To jump before you’re pushed, fall upon your sword, or even self-censor is sometimes a noble act. At other times it could be tantamount to paranoia. In my opinion censorship is dangerously close to dishonesty and often invites a misuse of power. I find it disturbing that the kind of censorship we once used to see described in communist countries is now becoming increasingly famiiar in the ’free’ West. Imagine if someone was to make some facile comments such as the following, some of which I’ve read here, you should still be allowed to read them, should you not? [Eg women are too stupid to be into Hi-Fi, the Chinese can’t make decent products, the 2020 US election was totally above suspicion, BLM are a peaceful organisation, we should trust all Hi-Fi reviewers, the Covid vaccine is 100% safe, Auto-tune is the best thing that happened to vocals, MP3 is crap, all digital sources sound exactly the same etc]. You are welcome to add any of your own, and let’s not pretend we don’t have any. We now live in an age where there doesn’t seem to be any public figure left who has not uttered words that someone, somewhere may find offensive - and I’m not just talking about the witch-hunt that follows Morrissey - even the sometimes robust talking Max Townshend may have once said a few things that some might bristle at. So what? We might do well to remember that censorship applies to the freedom and liberty of BOTH the writer and the reader. Surely it should be left up to the reader to decide the veracity of the words they are reading, should it not? How else are we to have these debates? Is this not a fundamental democratic right for every adult? If audiogon has a censorship policy in effect, perhaps it would be best to explain it some detail. On the other hand deliberate trolling is a real problem because it serves no purpose whatsoever, unless it can make you laugh of course... |
@pmiller115, Carlin was certainly an interesting character. Unfortunately we heard very little about him here in the UK (or had anyone remotely equivalent) but there's still plenty of his stuff online. I've also tons of respect for Max Townshend. He's certainly not one of those trying to cash in on the sudden boom of interest in loudspeaker isolation. There are now even products (usually some type of foam block) specifically made for pro use in studios. Max was talking about this issue way back in the 1990s (if not even earlier). He seemed to have started off advocating pneumatic (air bladder) isolation and eventually graduating to using damped springs. It's obvious that he's given this subject plenty of careful consideration. It's also quite reassuring to know that these current podiums, with their considerable lineage are receiving some very good feedback. |
@pmiller115, Yes, there is definitely more to this hobby than just listening. As for missing the obvious or even going round in circles, I think the classic case has been the switch from the original rubber feet used on equipment (inc loudspeakers) back in the 60s and 70s to the recommended spikes in the 80s and onwards and then gradually a return back to rubber feet / isolation of today. Just why this happened is not clear but perhaps the prevailing audio fashion went from the 50s era warmth and richness to a more clean and lean sound in the 80s and onwards and is now returning back once more. Some, like our friend @mahgister, even recommend a second set of isolation springs to provide additional damping for the speaker top. "2 set of springs boxes instead of one with small difference in load on them will damp the internal resonance...It is very audible... Audible immediately in the naturalness of timbre....." Interesting times. I can still remember the original Townshend Rock turntable with its unique headshell damping trough. Wasn’t that the turntable that gave you rock solid bass? |
