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Toole and why I like Tone Controls

In another thread I was pointed to a really excellent paper by Dr. Floyd Toole (he doesn't use the Dr. but it is well earned) on getting to neutral.

So I want to go back with a little history. In all of audio reproduction theater sound reproduction is among the most rigidly controlled areas of audio. From the needs of Dolby Surround playback, to introduction of acoustic decay requirements introduced by THX, and more, the attempt to deliver a uniform theater experience has been a subject of serious effort by many, and continues to be so.

That's in sharp contrast to consumer music.

So while this article focuses heavily on theater sound, it also touches on just how difficult it is for even theater sound experts to get to neutral. If they can't do it, imagine how hard it is for music!

And, yes, I'm going to hijack Dr. Toole's paper to plug tone controls. With all the guessing that goes on, not using tone controls, and not having great tone controls to use is folly.  Quote me. I said FOLLY!

http://www.aes.org/tmpFiles/elib/20200201/17839.pdf

Also, personal request, if anyone knows how I can get in touch with him and be a fan boy, please let me know. :) I'd love to hang with him, and it turns out he's a local.
erik_squires

Showing 18 responses by erik_squires

erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Further, I don’t really like the idea of fiddling with EQ per track.  That’s a more fidgety approach to music listening than I want to engage in


@prof - Absolutely true for me as well.

 Once my speakers are dialed in nicely I tend to enjoy pretty much everything played through them.


I tend to agree that neutral speakers have a much easier time playing anything you want through them, but I eventually found mine were a little too laid back, so I added a little bass, and at night if I'm wide awake I'll turn on the loudness so I can hear it all.

Best,

E
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
  As I stated earlier in this thread, it’s my experience that good quality class D amps (Currently very noticeably present on my pair of class D DSonic M3-600-M monoblocks), do this naturally with all source content. I use a Levinson 326S ss balanced preamp with no tone controls.


I'm generally pro Class D, but while I haven't heard this particular effect be unique to Class D, I will say that the amps, regardless of class, I like tend to have more extension in the treble and bass.

Perhaps low output impedance that extends to the tweeter helps this?
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
I have dynamic loudness compensation. The system will follow the appropriate loudness curve depending on the actual volume so no matter what the volume the music sounds exactly the same.


Very nice! Reminds me of the Yamaha/Denon loudness dials.  Loved those too.
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Thanks @tomic601 I'll take a listen ...


erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
You just repeat the obvious in every thread you start..nothing is ever original just something you read nothing of your own.

I'm so glad you agree with everything I've posted.  Would you prefer a T-shirt with my face on it, or a signed picture??

Best,

E

erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Your all about bass any where you land.


That’s your own bias my friend. It’s not in this thread.

None of it is phase correct

Which I’ve not brought up, Toole has not brought up in this article, and only a very few people believe is an issue, and that’s what I meant. Being phase correct or not is a subject I have little interest in, and you can happily take that to your own thread.

or of your own experience. Tom


Tom I have no idea what you are trying to say but it doesn’t seem to be on topic, and honestly you are attempting to bring up an issue so obliquely I can’t possibly answer you. Maybe you’d feel like you can fully explain yourself by starting a thread of your own? If you have been drinking early today maybe you want to leave this topic alone for a little while and come back when you feel you can better express yourself to those who can’t read your mind?

Best,

E

erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Does anyone hear have any actual experience with anything other than reading and gurtitating and jiving many white papers.

@theaudiotweak

Um, yes.

I’m ignoring the entire rest of your post since it is clearly off topic. Good news is that Audiogon has told me they have plenty of room for new threads, so feel free to start your own.

This thread is about how hard it is to get tonal balance right of any recording. Bass was not brought up.

erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Just tried it, seems to work.
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
@tomic601 - Before I go listening again, are you sure you aren't listening to the remaster??
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Sorry, to clarify before some one starts making their speaker cables from actual clothes lines....
I meant that the sound that you hear from sheets flapping on a clothes line is what early CD bass sounds like. Floppy, lifeless, like there's nothing behind it.
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Erik, cracking me up, have no idea what a sheet drying on a clothesline sounds like. But love the way they turn out.


Haha. :) Just like a flag flapping in the wind. :)
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Hey @tomic601

I don't need to look up the Palette, I remember it. I'll never see one in real life, but I remember. :)

Best,

E
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
I tend to find myself boosting the bass a little on vinyl and cutting the treble on cds.


Speaking of which, we've all heard how bad early CD's were. From Talking Heads to U2, some of it was crap. The bass sounds like a sheet drying on a clothesline. Adjusting for the sensibilities of the times is also a real thing.
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Some people will tell you that tone controls degrade clarity, etc. If so, I can’t tell.


I have found that this is very preamp specific, plus now that we are in the digital world, I do my tone controls before my DAC. I feel like I’m cheating.
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Also @millercarbon

How many different ways can you contradict yourself in a single sentence?? Are you a newspaper astrologist??
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Hey @MillerCarbon

Duuuuuuude, an area in which I have some hands on expertise in is not where you want to jump in without a life vest.

Just saying.  Maybe asking questions politely is a great way to show class and sobriety??
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Thanks, @kr4
erik_squires OP
15,892 posts
 
Sorry, credit to @pirad - This really was a great article to see. Thank you.
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